Knowing the Truth and then rejecting the Truth

[True-believer]

Somebody who knows the Biblical Truth and is convinced and convicted of the Truth and even on the road to baptism in the sda church but after a short while rejected the Truth and started going to a sunday keeping church instead of the sda church on sabbath...........

Is that person still SAVED???

He purposely threw away the Biblical Truth for another church that teaches falsely on a sunday and abandon sabbath-keeping.

Is he still saved after forfieting the Truth for a lie???

What are all your thoughts??? I'm curious!!!

[BobRyan]

You "can" be saved and turn away from truth - for a while. The Holy Spirit works with such a person. But the Holy Spirit is the "Spirit of Truth" John 16.

Jesus Christ is "the Way the TRUTH and the Life".

And the WAY to become lost is to fail to cherish a "LOVE of the TRUTH" no matter how unpleasant that truth is. That means always wanting MORE truth (A LOVE of the truth) even though it comes with a cost.

When Peter decided in Matt 16 that he had had quite enough truth thank you very much -- Christ said to him "get thee behind Me satan".

Never should someone be encouraged to reject truth. But we can not judge them -- only God knows the heart's true condition.

in Christ,

Bob

[Richard Holbrook]

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known [it], to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 2Pet 2:20,21

When a righteous [man] turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Again, when the wicked [man] turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Ezek 18:26,27

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matt 24:13

[phkrause]

If you turn your back on God, Jesus or the HS, than there is a good chance that if you were to die the next minute you could be lost. But than would that not be judging that person, that's Gods domain. My opinion would be that that person would be lost, but only God knows the heart. Outwardly others would see that the person has rejected but inwardly God would see the strudgle and the direction that person is going. Even EGW mentions in the GC that when the real issue of Sunday worship comes up than people will have to make a decision. She also mentions in the GC that many that have died and worshiped on Sunday will be in heaven, but that we should not base our going to heaven on that, because if we know better and don't heed the signs we will be judged on that.

pk

[Richard Holbrook]

The Sunday keepers that are going to heaven didn't have the sabbath truth. They were living up to the light they had, and they were serving God. The Sunday keepers who know the truth and continue to keep Sunday will have to make a choice one day.

[phkrause]

Absolutely, Rich4truth, if what I said didn't say that, that is what I meant.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

If we knowingly reject God's truth, we are actually rejecting God. And if we reject God, he respects our choice to separate ourselves from Him.

[True-believer]

If we knowingly reject God's truth, we are actually rejecting God. And if we reject God, he respects our choice to separate ourselves from Him.

So Catherine,

If we knowingly reject God's precious Bible Truths, we are separating ourselves from Him, it's a bit like being sent to HELL and burning, burning, and burning forever and forever and suffering eternal separation from God and togetherness with satan.

[Gerr]

The issue about whether one is damned or saved is not not settled in the ultimate sense until one comes up in the judgment. When a sinner accepts Jesus as his Savior, his name is written in the Lamb's book of life until confirmed or erased in the judgment. As long as there is breath, as long as a person still has the desire to know and follow the truth, God will never abandon such a person.

[Dr. Rich]

Can someone tell me what part does Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 have to play in all of this? If people are practicing a lie because they refused to seek the truth, what will happen to them?

[WayneV]

Somebody who knows the Biblical Truth and is convinced and convicted of the Truth and even on the road to baptism in the sda church but after a short while rejected the Truth and started going to a sunday keeping church instead of the sda church on sabbath...........

Is that person still SAVED???

He purposely threw away the Biblical Truth for another church that teaches falsely on a sunday and abandon sabbath-keeping.

Is he still saved after forfieting the Truth for a lie???

What are all your thoughts??? I'm curious!!!

True Believer,

You started off speaking of Biblical Truth, then you switched to speaking of denominational truth. This person seems to have somehow been convinced that what the Sunday keeping denomination teaches was more Biblical than what he was being taught by the SDA denomination. If s/he is following what they believe to be Bible truth, what right do we have to try to determine his/her salvation? I thank God daily that Christ is our judge, not you or me.

[Gerr]

Can someone tell me what part does Rev. 21:8 and 22:15 have to play in all of this? If people are practicing a lie because they refused to seek the truth, what will happen to them?

Per your references, of course, they will be lost. My point is: the irrevocable decision as to who is saved or lost is not made until they come up for judgment. For now, for me anyway, I can only infer or make a conditional judgment that IF a person persists in believing what they know to be a lie and reject what they know to be the truth that they will be lost, NOT they ARE lost.

[Dr. Rich]

Gerry, I can agree with that!

[True-believer]

Originally Posted By: True-believer

Somebody who knows the Biblical Truth and is convinced and convicted of the Truth and even on the road to baptism in the sda church but after a short while rejected the Truth and started going to a sunday keeping church instead of the sda church on sabbath...........

Is that person still SAVED???

He purposely threw away the Biblical Truth for another church that teaches falsely on a sunday and abandon sabbath-keeping.

Is he still saved after forfieting the Truth for a lie???

What are all your thoughts??? I'm curious!!!

True Believer,

You started off speaking of Biblical Truth, then you switched to speaking of denominational truth. This person seems to have somehow been convinced that what the Sunday keeping denomination teaches was more Biblical than what he was being taught by the SDA denomination. If s/he is following what they believe to be Bible truth, what right do we have to try to determine his/her salvation? I thank God daily that Christ is our judge, not you or me.

The person I'm speaking about is myself, I was convicted of the Biblical Truths within the SDA Church, I nearly became a member in the sda church, but i turned my back on it all, why? i don't know... i can't disproof any of the sda teaching from the Bible alone, i don't know why i left, maybe it because i couldn't withstand the pressure from my mother and previous friends who are not sda themselves... who knows why??? i don't... only God knows.

I am regretting leaving the sda church, why, because i know the truth, the biblical truth.

but i can not go back now to the sda church, instead me and another person is finding a empty building and we're gonna start up a church and we'll meet on sabbath and other days.

The main focus i'm focussing on is Prayer and Outreach and not doctrinal matters.

Helping the homeless, the streetkids, and witnessing out on the streets.

I have created my own mess in this life, and i need help from Jesus Christ to get me out of this mess that i created.

Lord Jesus,

Please help me get out of this mess of getting so caught up in doctrine matters, and help me to focus more on prayer and outreach in the community, in this lovely part of the world you placed me in.

I give myself wholly to you Jesus, use me in the way you want to use me.

In Jesus name I pray this prayer...

Amen.

[WayneV]

True-believer,

Someone once humbly suggested to me that if I would focus on building a relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit would work out the details within my head, heart, and hands. It turned out to be very good advice.

Agape`

[phkrause]

That sounds good WayneV.

pk

[Musicman1228]

True-believer,

There is a big difference between doctrine and theology. Doctrine is what human beings manufacture our of their theology. Doctrine is catechism and dogma; something you just learn to be a part of the group; it is not something that God looks at as Truth. Of course, some of it may be true, but it is the attitude of "if you don't believe as we do you will be lost" that gets in the way of knowing and understanding the truth, and causes people to feel as if they have done something wrong in either not staying in the SDA church or becoming card carrying members of the SDA church.

I believe that the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven today. But just because you don't claim the name 'SDA' does not mean that you are not in the Kingdom of Heaven.

There are ONLY two things one must do to be in the Kingdom of Heaven:

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring (the Kingdom of Heaven), on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Rev.12:17.

Keep the 10 Commandments/Covenant (Deut.4:13) and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ and you ARE in the Kingdom, no matter what anyone else may say.

Also remember, that when you declare yourself for the Kingdom of Heaven Satan WILL come down on you like a ton of bricks, because He hates everyone that does the two things that He must change in them to win them for his kingdom of darkness; that is, make them believe that the Commandments no longer apply to salvation, and make them believe that the words of anyone other than Jesus Christ will save them.

You know what to do, what will please God and serve your fellow man. Take courage, because YOU CAN overcome the world as Jesus did.

He that overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. Rev.3:21.

[Richard Holbrook]

Musicman, I agree with what you're saying here, but there is nothing wrong with doctrine, and true doctrine is not just something man comes up with.

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. Jn 7:16

1Ti 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

What is the testimony of Jesus?

Rev 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

[joabsam]

True-believer,

There is a big difference between doctrine and theology. Doctrine is what human beings manufacture our of their theology. Doctrine is catechism and dogma; something you just learn to be a part of the group; it is not something that God looks at as Truth. Of course, some of it may be true, but it is the attitude of "if you don't believe as we do you will be lost" that gets in the way of knowing and understanding the truth, and causes people to feel as if they have done something wrong in either not staying in the SDA church or becoming card carrying members of the SDA church.

I believe that the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven today. But just because you don't claim the name 'SDA' does not mean that you are not in the Kingdom of Heaven.

There are ONLY two things one must do to be in the Kingdom of Heaven:

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring (the Kingdom of Heaven), on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Rev.12:17.

Keep the 10 Commandments/Covenant (Deut.4:13) and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ and you ARE in the Kingdom, no matter what anyone else may say.

Also remember, that when you declare yourself for the Kingdom of Heaven Satan WILL come down on you like a ton of bricks, because He hates everyone that does the two things that He must change in them to win them for his kingdom of darkness; that is, make them believe that the Commandments no longer apply to salvation, and make them believe that the words of anyone other than Jesus Christ will save them.

You know what to do, what will please God and serve your fellow man. Take courage, because YOU CAN overcome the world as Jesus did.

He that overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. Rev.3:21.

[joabsam]

What are we to believe?

"As many as believe in Him to them gave He power to become the CHILDREN OF GOD. John 1:12

For GoD so loved.....that WHOSOEVER BELIEVETH IN HIM.......John 3:16

I dont know where the doctrine is.

The point is whiles doctrine is to the church, The TRUTH is Jesus ask Pilate.

The second point is that, the Lord was very specific that to grow one has to abide in HIM and he in HIM

The third is work He left us to acomplish. To witness and make desciples and baptize them in The name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Baptize them into the Kingdom not a denomination.

joabs

[Dr. Rich]

joabs, good post--but one should read the whole chapter and only then you will see that to truely believe in Jesus means that you abide in His words--all of them--including the whole ten commanments. Right?

[Woody]

Quote:

Baptize them into the Kingdom not a denomination.

Yes. That would be correct. And that is what our church does. Anytime after someone has been baptized into the "Kingdom" they can be voted into the church with 51% of those in attendence. And the baptism could have happened with any denomination as long as it was by immersion.

[True-believer]

True-believer,

Someone once humbly suggested to me that if I would focus on building a relationship with Jesus, the Holy Spirit would work out the details within my head, heart, and hands. It turned out to be very good advice.

Agape`

This advice i will live by!!!

building a closer relationship with Jesus Christ--humbly.

[True-believer]

True-believer,

There is a big difference between doctrine and theology. Doctrine is what human beings manufacture our of their theology. Doctrine is catechism and dogma; something you just learn to be a part of the group; it is not something that God looks at as Truth. Of course, some of it may be true, but it is the attitude of "if you don't believe as we do you will be lost" that gets in the way of knowing and understanding the truth, and causes people to feel as if they have done something wrong in either not staying in the SDA church or becoming card carrying members of the SDA church.

I believe that the SDA church is the Kingdom of Heaven today. But just because you don't claim the name 'SDA' does not mean that you are not in the Kingdom of Heaven.

There are ONLY two things one must do to be in the Kingdom of Heaven:

Then the dragon became furious with the woman and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring (the Kingdom of Heaven), on those who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Rev.12:17.

Keep the 10 Commandments/Covenant (Deut.4:13) and hold to the testimony of Jesus Christ and you ARE in the Kingdom, no matter what anyone else may say.

Also remember, that when you declare yourself for the Kingdom of Heaven Satan WILL come down on you like a ton of bricks, because He hates everyone that does the two things that He must change in them to win them for his kingdom of darkness; that is, make them believe that the Commandments no longer apply to salvation, and make them believe that the words of anyone other than Jesus Christ will save them.

You know what to do, what will please God and serve your fellow man. Take courage, because YOU CAN overcome the world as Jesus did.

He that overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. Rev.3:21.

thanks musicman1228,

this is what matters, the testimony of Jesus Christ and to keep the commandments of Jesus Christ.

This i will do, not because i am saved by doing it, because i am not, i am only saved by the precious blood of Jesus which cleanses me clean, and gives me the free gift of grace, for it is by grace that i am saved and that not of myself, it is the gift of God.

-----Ephesians 2ff

but i will keep the commandents of Jesus because i love Him-----John 14:15

i will and i do keep the testimony of Jesus Christ and His commandments because i love Him, and this relationship between me and Him means the world to me and nothing will get in the way of it because i love Him too much to let that happen.

[Musicman1228]

True-believer,

Good on you (as they say in Australia).