What someone thinks of us....

[Nicodema]

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now the question....

Is it possible to find posted messages on ClubA in the last year where you yourself have done literally to others what you are at this moment accusing JRL for having done?

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I'm sure you would find messages where I have had words and strong disagreements with others, where I have given others far less than kind treatment. I do not believe this constitutes precisely the type of situation which I mentioned above -- though bear in mind by drawing this distinction I mean neither to give excuse for nor condone my own misdeeds.

[Nicodema]

To illustrate:

Two people, Person A and Person B, have each slammed into another person. Person A hits Person X. Person B hits Person Y. Let's say for sake of argument this was inadvertent for starters.

Person X looks startled at Person A, not sure if the pain was intentional or not, and exclaims, "Ouch, that really hurt, you should watch where you are going." Person A responds by laughing in their face and calling them a cry baby, then knocking them to the ground and giving them a kick for good measure. When Person X responds with total shock and outrage at being so ill treated, Person A redoubles the effort, turns up the volume, stomps them in the dust, and gets everyone around to witness it and swear it's Person X's fault for even being there to breathe and take up air and space for how dare they not be the sort of person Person A can get on with.

Person Y gets angry at Person B, automatically decides it MUST have been intentional, and exclaims, "Just who the *$&(# do you think you are???" This provokes Person B, who then "tells off" Person Y over it, maybe gives them a shove in anger. Person Y laughs at Person B, tells them they are ineffectual and shouldn't even bother expressing themselves since nobody cares. Person B starts feeling badly about (a) how they are acting; ( how they are feeling; © how they are being made to feel, and bails out with a parting shot or mope, just wanting the ugliness to end.

No, somehow, the two situations don't look the same to me at all. Though I will grant you this: both Persons A and B are guilty of misdeeds. But there the similarity ends.

I'm not interested in dragging this out any further or arguing over it, but you asked, so I answered.

[Stan]

I was given some misinformation, JR was never banned on the original forum. I regret posting that.

I do appreciate the links he has to send people to this forum. Thanks JR.

[Nan]

Not replying to the apology, Stan - just that I dont think I even knew about the Little Bit Off Forum - sounds like it is right where I would be at home <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blink.gif" alt="" /> Am I eligible?

[Guest]

Quote:

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I dont think I even knew about the Little Bit Off Forum -

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WE DIDN'T EITHER!!!!

BUSTED!!

[Stan]

Nan, check your listing again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[Planey]

So what do you need to do to qualify to view the Little Bit Off forum?

Are antipodeans too far off to start with to be counted?

Graeme

[Fran]

I sincerely apologize for having posted this thread. I just thought it would be interesting to hear what someone else thought of us.

Wow, did I open a can of worms or what? I never wanted to name names or be critical of us or the person that has expressed their opinion.

However, I did find out that I am a paying member and there are places I can not go. Is there a scale on membership fees? Something like, pay more, get more!

If they are questionable, why do we have them here? Are we fakes with the one side we show the world, but hide the other parts from view?

All this time I thought we were just some struggling people on way to the kingdom that enjoyed fun too, but maybe our roots are much deeper than I thought?

Why do we *hide* forums? Are we ashamed? Are we hypocrites?

The real question is why others are getting a bigger bang for their buck than I am? I should be given the choice to block those forums like I do a poster, but I find that someone else is making my decisions for me. That makes me feel manipulated and judged by others who know me not.

From the sounds of these forums, they just aren't quite Adventist, but cater to those who are Adventists, but cling to the world and it offerings?

Is this our way of increasing membership?

I apologize for everyone apologizing to everybody else. I posted the statement as a chance to question why someone would feel that way. He is allowed to have his opinion, and you and I are allowed to have our opinions. LynnDel had the right idea when she said it never hurts to evaluate the comments. I never meant to evaluate the person.

I for one have never had bad issues with Stan. I have given him heartburn at times I'm sure, but he has been honest if I ask the correct direct question; thank you for that Stan.

As for the other opinions, I am a big girl and stay away from politics. The forums are there, but I choose not to participate. It does not have to be hidden from my view and it is not. I am allowed to choose to participate, or not. I am a firm believer we should be what we are. Whatever that is!

If I disagree with a forum, I can just skip it, but as a paying member, I am tired of having to ask permission for every interview and all the unknown hidden forums.

Jesus is coming soon. Do we believe that? I do. I am sorry JR for all of this. Please accept MY apology. I never meant your name to be mentioned or even brought up. I am sorry it has caused you grief and hurt.

[Nan]

It is not a question of more for the same bucks Fran but certain forums are private and admission usually by request - the women's, the men's, there is a private singles forum besides the open one, and a few in like vein. I have not seen the mens one but the others are not to be ashamed of, just somewhere to go for more privacy - I do not think there is anything inherently wrong with that. I certainly feel more free discussing certain subjects within a group where I know the members better and feel known. Are you in the women's one? Gail or Amelia can put you there if you want. And now I am off to check this other one I know nought about <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Fran]

Shouldn't we be given a list to choose from if we want to join or not?

What else is out there?Shouln't there be a Post where all of these forums are *hidden* and a post that says, "if you would like access to this forum, contact Stan?

Stan, this is my request to see everything! What ever it is. I'd like to see them, but of course you can block me from the men's forum.

[Nicodema]

There are certain forums on here of highly sensitive nature that some people would not feel safe having others have access to unless they were going through the same things. If I had a problem with masturbation let's say, I would not want just anyone to have access to a forum to discuss that very sensitive problem. I might be open to discussing it with others who struggle with the same things but I would not want to just be "on display" for all and sundry just because THEY would have their "nose out of joint" if they were not "invited". Do you see what I'm saying here? Why do you NOT go to a support group for people with male pattern baldness? Because you don't HAVE it yourself, so why should you even be there. It's like that.

If Stan decides to change it, I hope he lets us know ahead of time because I would want to pull my entire input out of a certain sensitive area and kill my membership there -- as it would become useless to me at that point. (And no, it's not a support group for chronic masturbators OR balding men! Those were just examples. )

[Stan]

The private forums that are really private, are by invitation only, by the moderator of that, or the group. I could not make the private forums public.

To assure everyone there is no masturbation forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Wonder if there is enough balding men to have a forum lol..... i may have to join that... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[Bravus]

Fran, just to add a bit, and as Nico has explained, there are more reasons for privacy than shame. I do think there is value in having a women's thread where women can discuss whatever issues are of interest to them without male perspectives being blared (as some have described feeling a need for that in some of the main forums) and in privacy. Same with the men's forum. Other private fora (forums?) are for specific issues and are like support or encounter groups. I strongly support the idea of invitation-only forums for particular issues.

Maybe I'm talking out of turn here because I'm not the mod or the originator of the 'Just a Little Bit Off' forum, but that was intended for any jokes, humor etc that might be uncomfortable for the mainstream or visitors to CA. I believe that God invented sex (as one example), and that humor that draws on our foibles and insecurities in that area, without being in any way exploitative or obscene, is quite OK. Sex is also a real and important part of life for the very many married members of the forum, and pretending it doesn't exist just seems disingenuous.

Many others do not share that belief, and are very uncomfortable with such humor, (as the thread-starting post showed), so the creation of the forum was (as I understand it) an attempt to make life as comfortable and authentic as possible for as many as possible. I definitely reject your description of such a forum as 'not really SDA and for those who are clinging on to the world'.

I think there *is* value in taking critiques of us and checking them for applicability. I think the one that started this thread may have challenged us in some areas where we can grow, but in some dimensions it was also far from the mark. (And by the way, I didn't intend criticism of the poster of that post on the other forum, but we do need to consider the source: as I understand it his beef with CA was largely that he wasn't allowed to be a bully here.)

For example, I don't think this site (the whole set of forums) taken over all is either spiritually light-weight or anti-American. It's international, so issues around America are discussed, but there are plenty of pro-American posters, and even those who question the administration's policies generally do so respectfully.

I don't believe the site is characterised by smut either, although that's a frequent accusation from other sites. (And, while we're considering the source, posts on other forums about CA are, by definition, from 'the competition'. We might hope Adventist forums would be more collaborative than competitive, but that old human nature gets in the way...) CA is also not characterised by antagonism to SDA doctrine, although it is characterised by the search...

And I *definitely* don't think CA is characterised by 'group think' and ostracism for those who don't agree with the 'popular group'! Who is this 'popular group', and why have I seen no trace of them around here? Are they (gasp) a 'sekrit cabal'? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Nope, seems to me like lots of just plain folks with an incredibly diverse range of views.

I believe what Club Adventist is characterised by is people being real. Yep, Nico sometimes talks about occult practices - that's her reality and the life she has lived: do we want to tell her to hide her scars because they disturb us? Others of us talk about other facets of life and reality that might not be so savoury or line up perfectly with SDA dogma. But what I see here is a group of people dedicated to trying to understand God and His role in their lives, and to conducting that search openly and honestly, without a whole lot of pious masks. I'll vote for that over a sterile forum any day.

[Stan]

One thing that needs to be made clear, there are no hidden Bible/Theology/doctrinal type of forums, and no forums that talk about Church or independent ministries politics and leadership.

Now that I said that, I COULD start a FORUM on Secret Insider information of the Adventist Church and charge a zillion dollars a month to access that, and I would get a LOT of people joining.... (and then someone would have to make up some juicy stuff)

[Neil D]

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Now that I said that, I COULD start a FORUM on Secret Insider information of the Adventist Church and charge a zillion dollars a month to access that, and I would get a LOT of people joining.... (and then someone would have to make up some juicy stuff)

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Me! ME! ME! I can do it! My only requirement is a 40% cut of the gross. You wont be disappointed Stan. And it will be credible, oh soooo credible....!

Quote:

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But what I see here is a group of people dedicated to trying to understand God and His role in their lives, and to conducting that search openly and honestly, without a whole lot of pious masks. I'll vote for that over a sterile forum any day.

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Right on, Bravus. I prefer an enviorment of character rather than an enviorment of blaize [sp] personalities....

[Fran]

Well, I've been abused. Where do they live. Don’t tell me. That is fine. My abuse would make you guys sick.

Then there is a male issue that families and relatives deal with. 46 xx-y, 47 xx-y mosaic. Where is that forum? Where do these folks fit into society in general as well as trying to figure out if they are male or female. What is the churches position on this? Are they male or female? When 130 chromosomes are tested and 127 are female and 3 are male and God provided male genitals, yet they have PMS every month and have ovaries.

Should this male seek a sex change even after they have lived 30+ years as a male and only just now finds out other organs are inside? How do you help them through a broken marriage, depression.....

I have delta with the occult. I was a Matron of Honor in a friend’s marriage to a warlock. The coven leader conducted the ceremony. He wore the upside down cross....

Their bed was in the middle of the room under a pyramid. (Nico, surely you know what happens to the bride at these weddings, right?)

Another bedroom was dedicated to worship. Incense, candles everywhere a 5 pointed star was in the center of a large round rug. My friend finally divorced him, but had to give him their son named Damien. Yeah I studied it for a while, but chose Christ instead in the end.

Don't anyone worry, I have no intention of raining on anyone’s parade. I will keep my discussions public. These things I deal with plus a load more. I just don't hang it on my shoulder. I am not ashamed of any part of my life. Ask, I will usually answer.

Where are all of those who are dying? You know, those with a terminal disease. I could visit there and try to figure out why in the end everyone will praise God you are dead because you are such a burden.

I guess I have a lot of stuff that I don't want others to know. God knows, I have enough on my plate to have to deal with any one else’s plate at CA.

What about grief recovery as LynnDel suggested. I lost my daughter right in front of my eyes. I was on the floor begging God to bring her back and take me. He didn't answer that prayer.

I could go on all day long, but why? I have figured out that when there is no one else or anything else, God is the only thing left. So I spend my time out of bed trying to make a difference in what I leave behind. I have a newer vision than others. Jesus could come for me at any time.

Now that I have said all this, I can't stand pity, and don't deserve any so let it alone. I don't have time for that.

Nico;

I have no desire to read about you[r experiences (edited: inflammatory)] Go ahead and fight your dragons. Just remember this, "As you behold, you shall become changed" and the more you talk about the occult or think on those things, they become primary. That is why I have never discussed it with anyone. Habits can be changed with God and only God.

For years I had to fight my thoughts and my inner self every time I had a thought, I started reading my Bible out loud and would not stop until the evil one could not listen to the words of Jesus any longer.

At night in my dreams they came. Soon in my dreams I screamed the name of Jesus over and over again. Then is when I would awake and read and pray until I felt Jesus' power surround me so I could sleep.

Bravus;

Are these things *real* enough? Because I have a lot more reality than the average person! I just take it to Jesus and leave it there.

I don't need a private forum. I have one with Jesus. That is where real stuff belongs.

And my nose is not out of joint! I am just troubled that other people may need to be invited to the private forums. How does everyone else get invited? How do you know if they have been involved in all these very private, real issues? How come no one knew about any of this? Because I have never told it before? It is none of anyone’s business. Most of it is over, praise God!

Everyone is now allowed to return to something more productive. I am signing off.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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I don't need a private forum. I have one with Jesus. That is where real stuff belongs.

I am signing off.

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[:"red"] "...and you were as a brand plucked out of the burning; yet you did not return to Me, says the Lord." [/] Amos 4:11 AMP

So glad, Fran, you are one of those brands from the burning.

So happy to know you don't fit the same end as this particular Scripture indicates. You are only one that I could refer to who have fit that description, that take part on this forum. What a joy to be able to rejoice with you in your deliverence, which of course won't be final until Jesus returns. Keep looking up! Let Jesus have His perfect work.

[:"red"] "I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance." [/] Luke 15:7 KJV

Hope your not making that last sentence a permanent threat.

You've added much worthwhile to this forum.

Lift Jesus up!!

[Bravus]

I respect all your struggles and all your choices, Fran. I just want to ask you, in a spirit of humility - Do you expect everyone else to make the same choices as you in how they cope?

We're all different, and for some of us being 'real' means doing as you do, for others it means something different. To insist that everyone behaves as you do is not fair, in my opinion.

[Nicodema]

Quote:

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Their bed was in the middle of the room under a pyramid. (Nico, surely you know what happens to the bride at these weddings, right?)

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Why do you address your questions to me? Every so-called "coven" is different. Some are extremely traditional, others are atypical. Some are sabbatic and goatly in nature, others are more Wiccan and feminist and would NEVER do what you hint at ... NEVER. I can't answer for your experiences or for whom you knew. Do you have a NAME for their tradition that I might connect it to anything REAL which actually exists in the world of which I am acquainted?

As for the rest of your post, as far as I know there is no abuse forum on here. If there is one, I have not been invited to join it either. That does not anger or offend me personally. There may be people in it already who would feel unsafe around me. Should I force my presence on them to satisfy my own desires? What does Philippians 2:4 say? That is my responsibility.

At the same time, I trust that if the mod or admin invites someone to a private forum in which I am a part, that they are "vetting" for that person that they see them to be a good fit for that group and have taken note of them as someone with the same needs in common. AFAIK they ALSO ask folks IN that group, "would you be comfortable with inviting _______ to join us?"

I trust their judgment overall, but if I have cause for complaint, as I mentioned before, I could always voice it private to the mod for them to decide, or opt out of the group myself. Most of the time these things work themselves out on the internet. When people don't get on well, the cause usually departs or else the one wrongly thought to be the cause will separate out for a time till it is seen they are not the real cause. I've been around enough to see and know.

If you need an abuse forum, I hear Survivors 'n' Thrivers is really thriving these days. http://www.survivors-n-thrivers.com/

[Gregory Matthews]

Re: "I am just troubled that other people may need to be invited to the private forums. How does everyone else get invited?"

This is what happens in daily life. Mrs. Williams is having some problems with an emotionally troubled son. So, she discusses the situation with a few of her close friends, those she can trust, and those whom she feels safe in conversing with them about a very personal issue.

This is the Internet. Here our conversations take place in cyber-space, and in threads. Some here have request threads closed to everyone except a few with whom they feel safe to share, and/or want to know. That is O. K. Because they are closed, they may have titles that are very personal, and would embarrass them if the public knew that they were there. As Stan has said, there is no thread, yet on masturbation. But, some are quite personal.

[Stan]

I should have been thoughtful enough to not mention those private forums.

Just add this to the long list of things Stan has done wrong.

As you can imagine the thought of having a close family member exposed to strangers over something that happened a long time ago, or private moments exposed, brought panic to that small group, it has now been dissolved and deleted. That was all my fault.

Fran I think a support group/forum for those who are dealing with Death and Dying would be such a great Ministry. Would you mind leading that out? I would really appreciate that. REALLY appreciate that. Also a support group/forum for those with those in a horrible sexual gender would be good, The later would have to be private so the members would not get abused by those who typically do those things..

Again, I failed in leadership for doing what I did, and ask forgiveness.

[Guest]

Yeah,

And We need a support group for those who fail in leadership too.

Stan ..you have my support, forgiveness, and sympathy...if I shared what I did as a leader...(cringe, groan, red-faced...)

oh never mind...it's in bare skin...

[Guest]

Since my agenda is to put as many of the clergy on a guilt trip ...maybe the leadership forum membership will grow.

[cricket]

Okay. Enough grumbling.

Fran has brought to light some serious problems with having the private forums being with-held from those that might need it.

Do you understand that there are people who do have problems of various natures that they are unwilling to share and talk about with the general public? I, personally, have come to a point in my life where I am willing to speak about certain issues that have affected me; I have not always been this way, however.

What I'm trying to say is that perhaps there may be some people who are struggling with: demon-posession, adultery, divorce, thievery, alcoholism, sex addiction, pornography, drug addiction (shall I continue, this list could fill the page, the thread, the forum, the website...). People who are struggling don't always tell, or hint at, their problems. They do look for solutions, however, but it is hard to find them when they are private.

Counseling is one thing. Having been there, done that, I know that the best form of counseling comes from someone else who's gone through the same experiences.

I offer a solution: Stan, I have been to other forums where a list of private forums have been posted. It is a list with descriptions, but it does not share with the public the names of people who are members. This could be a great way to reach those who really need it. Allow the list to be shared with the general public. Then, if anyone feels they need to be a part of a particular private forum--they must ask for permission to join. Then, if further conversation needs to take place determining if the user is truly serious in his/her request, allow it to take place between the moderator/administrator and the person making the request.

Permission can then be denied or granted.

It's a pretty easy solution.

[Neil D]

I guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed, this morning....

Fran,

You requested no pity, and you shall have none from me. [That is your only warning regarding this post. If you stop here, you might not be upset over the next paragraphs[

Your post was...well, pitiful.

You parade your abuses, and your troubles before us all, and lamaent that "How does everyone else get invited?"....What do you want from us, girl? An invitation??? And just to clue you in, not EVERYONE is invited.

There is a reason why those forums are by invitation only... because the people on those forums have been burned by other well meaning people..ie, thought police, SDA Standards committees, and just p l a i n ignorance. Not to say that there is, but if a pastor wants to let his hair down and just be himself in a forum with a few trusted individual, he can without those from the SDA standards committee coming in to peak on the Paster to see if he is living up to them. There are others in similar situations that need these forum to keep thier sanity in a world gone crazy over rules,laws and expectations. What you might see in those forums might be upsetting to you and not meet with your expectations. And yes, I have had people die in my hands while I am caring for them, but there are things that still shock me. I am not so blind as to not be supprised from time to time.

If you are not invited, it is because they don't want to upset you and your values.

I have been trying to tell the moderator of the womens forum that I am needed in there, but they still will not let me in..Is my nose bent out of shape over it? Not really...Am I lamanting that I am not in the forum? Except for this little blurb, No....

So don't parade your life troubles before us all and lamant how you ain't in a particular forum....Just like there is good reason why I am not in the womens forum, there is a equally good reason why you are not in the forum that you have requested to be in....that is, if you have asked.