What is Happening to the Music in the Church?

[cweir]

As a relatively young Adventist - I am amazed at the music that is being played at Adventist church services, gatherings, camp meetings and youth conferences.

Please view this site to give your perspective above how you feel the church is progressing in this journey.

http://www.sdasurveys.com

[Dr. Rich]

Yes, I sadly agree. I'm much older, but what I do not like is all of the "7-11" songs. What I mean by this is that they sing seven words, eleven times. It reminds me of chanting or prayer beads. Are we moving into a 'New Age' type of church now?

[WayneV]

DrRich,

You must think that Psalm 136 is one of those songs. It repeats a six word phrase twenty-six times. It is too bad that our music has decreased in phraseological verbiage while increasing in repetitiveness.

Agape`

[Tom Wetmore]

Yeah, I know what you mean about that repetitiveness. I recall one very popular chorus that repeated the same word over 60 times and goes on for 5 minutes! Yes that's right... one word - 60 times!!

You would think Handel could have done better than that for the Hallelujah Chorus...

But apparently God really appreciates that sort of repetitive praise thing - the 4 creatures around his throne never stop their endless chant, saying over and over day and night, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." (Rev. 4:8).

And consider the songs the Creator gave to the birds - same thing over and over all day long...

So who am I to question what God likes to hear from His creatures...

[Musicman1228]

Most Christian praise music reminds me of the joke about the Zen Buddist monk that went to a hot dog stand and said to the owner, "Make me one with everything."

The point of music in worship is to heighten your awareness of Who it is you are worshiping, not promote a Zen like altered mind state that numbs you to the very thing you are trying to accomplish by worship.

[there buster]

Quote:

7-11" songs. What I mean by this is that they sing seven words, eleven times. It reminds me of chanting or prayer beads. Are we moving into a 'New Age' type of church now?

No. Demographic studies make it clear that the NA church is an 'Old Age' church, with a median age in the 50's. And we sing "Deep and Wide" a "3-6" song.

[Tom Wetmore]

[Woody]

You guys are good.

[phkrause]

Maybe to good!

pk

[olger]

Yes, I sadly agree. I'm much older, but what I do not like is all of the "7-11" songs. What I mean by this is that they sing seven words, eleven times. It reminds me of chanting or prayer beads. Are we moving into a 'New Age' type of church now?

I have often felt the same way.

[Dr. Shane]

My wife and I visited a church a few months back where they had a full set of drums and some rocking guitars. Needless to say, It was awesome. They played CCM songs like Casting Crowns, Newboys and Third Day. We listen to the music enough at home that my kids were able to sing along. The people were super friendly too. In their church bulletin I say they had a biker group that went riding together.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I don't like a lot of praise songs. They only give us the words, and the melody is never in my range, so I have to try to figure out a harmony without any printed music to guide me. Usually, because the songs are so short, just about the time I get a good harmony figured out, the song is over, and I never do get to enjoy correctly singing an entire verse with refrain. Then it could be months before they repeat the same song again, and by then I have forgotten what I came up with before, and have to go through the same thing over again. Half the time (or more) I just don't even bother to sing at all.

[Tom Wetmore]

What you described is unfortunately not remotely the same as what Shane described. (I have experienced both extremes and react very much the same as both of you.) I say "unfortunately" because this sort of Christian dittie approach to praise music led by unqualified (limited musical ability) praise and worship leaders is what gives real CCM worship and praise music a bad reputation. And it results in the superficial and, quite frankly, ignorant charterizations like "7-11" music. I say "ignorant" because it demonstrates a very limited and incomplete muiscal knowlege. And this sort of simplistic repetitive Christian dittie musical effort is not what CCM praise and worship music is all about or should be.

But regardless of the genre of music, music poorly done or without enthusiasm is harmful to any worship experience. For small churches without able musicians it would be better to use recorded music for the everyone to listen to and sing along with.

[lazarus]

Quote:

"7-11" music.

What is that? What I mean is why 7-11?

[carolaa]

Laz, you must not have read all the posts carefully.

what I do not like is all of the "7-11" songs. What I mean by this is that they sing seven words, eleven times. It reminds me of chanting or prayer beads.

[aldona]

Yeah, I know what you mean about that repetitiveness. I recall one very popular chorus that repeated the same word over 60 times and goes on for 5 minutes! Yes that's right... one word - 60 times!!

You would think Handel could have done better than that for the Hallelujah Chorus...

But apparently God really appreciates that sort of repetitive praise thing - the 4 creatures around his throne never stop their endless chant, saying over and over day and night, "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come." (Rev. 4:8).

And consider the songs the Creator gave to the birds - same thing over and over all day long...

So who am I to question what God likes to hear from His creatures...

I'd like to say "amen" to all of the above.

Now that I am involved in music ministry at church, I am very rapidly learning the #1 Rule of Church Music Selection.

That rule is:

"If I don't like it, it means God doesn't like it."

Rule #2 states:

"Even if you pick the "Hallelujah Chorus" as special music for your church service, there will be SOMEBODY out there who will come to you with a well-researched reason why this piece of music is not appropriate for worship."

But seriously, if "repetition" is so evil, then probably 90% of classical sacred music is out.

And for the record, I'm definitely a classical lover, but there are a lot of modern worship songs that are beautiful to sing and listen to, musically well put together and carry a good message. Our choir sings a mix of old and new music. And I'm still discovering an endless variety of different styles of music.

When I learned to let go of the automatic "this-is-new-so-it-must-be-bad-and-I-must-be-on-my-guard" reflex and just concentrated on praising God with whatever song was being played, music got a lot more enjoyable.

aldona

[Key Guy]

The good news about the shift of the style of music these days is that now ANYONE can make up a praise song. It's not just for the musically talented anymore. Same with the new church bands. It seems that ANYONE can pick up a guitar, bang on the drums or rattle the tambourines and make praise music.

(I've seen the bongos passed around the circle of worshipers for the next genius to take his turn)

Fannie, who needs you anymore?

[lazarus]

[Jeannieb43]

The good news about the shift of the style of music these days is that now ANYONE can make up a praise song.

Fannie, who needs you anymore?

LOL

Fanny who?

Fanny Crosby??

[i'll wager 90% of the C/A members have no idea who Fanny Crosby was. -- It's only we "old" people who can remember her songs.]

[LifeHiscost]

What you described is unfortunately not remotely the same as what Shane described. (I have experienced both extremes and react very much the same as both of you.) I say "unfortunately" because this sort of Christian dittie approach to praise music led by unqualified (limited musical ability) praise and worship leaders is what gives real CCM worship and praise music a bad reputation. And it results in the superficial and, quite frankly, ignorant charterizations like "7-11" music. I say "ignorant" because it demonstrates a very limited and incomplete muiscal knowlege. And this sort of simplistic repetitive Christian dittie musical effort is not what CCM praise and worship music is all about or should be.

But regardless of the genre of music, music poorly done or without enthusiasm is harmful to any worship experience. For small churches without able musicians it would be better to use recorded music for the everyone to listen to and sing along with.

This opinion and biblical counsel is not addressed to any particular person.

There are some forms of music of which I don't find spiritually fulfilling. As to the criticism of same, let me count the ways. And I find none of it spiritually fulfilling.

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your(their) Father which is in heaven."Matthew 5:16 KJV Bold and brackets mine LHC

"So it will be at the close and consummation of the age. The angels will go forth and separate the wicked from the righteous (those who are upright and in right standing with God)"Matthew 13:49 AMP

Seems like His hands are the safest with which to leave their lives.

"Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand."Romans 14:4 NKJV

Regards!

[Key Guy]

Originally Posted By: timewarp

The good news about the shift

of the style of music these days is that now ANYONE can

make up a praise song.

Fannie, who needs you anymore?

LOL

Fanny who?

Fanny Crosby??

[i'll wager 90% of the C/A members have no idea who Fanny Crosby was. -- It's only we "old" people who can remember her songs.]

You nailed it.

Depending on the type of praise music I hear, I either visualize:

1. Heaven and and the angelic host

2. A small country church with simple folk from the 1800's.

3. Jimmy Swaggart dramatically crying while confessing his indiscretions

Guess which songs go where. Hint: Swaggart dramatically sang, and still sings, the new praise songs with the drama of of a Shakespearean thespian. Not a pretty sight.

[Woody]

Quote:

[i'll wager 90% of the C/A members have no idea who Fanny Crosby was. -- It's only we "old" people who can remember her songs.]

Jeannie ... I dare say that most here are as 'old as the hills' and have no problem remembering her songs.

[Dr. Shane]

But regardless of the genre of music, music poorly done or without enthusiasm is harmful to any worship experience. For small churches without able musicians it would be better to use recorded music for the everyone to listen to and sing along with.

I agree 100%. There are Christian videos with the words that can be projected onto the screen for the congregation to sing along with. We even do that in Mexican churches south of the border.

[Planey]

Quote:

[i'll wager 90% of the C/A members have no idea who Fanny Crosby was. -- It's only we "old" people who can remember her songs.]

Jeannie ... I dare say that most here are as 'old as the hills' and have no problem remembering her songs.

Possibly - but I'm not convinced/

Fanny Crosby was a contemporary of Ellen White. FC was born in 1820, EGW in 1827, but they both died in 1915.

I know we have a number of venerable and ancient members here, but I doubt there are many who would have been waiting with eager anticipation for the next gem to appear from her pen...

Graeme

[John317]

Originally Posted By: Redwood

Quote:

[i'll wager 90% of the C/A members have no idea who Fanny Crosby was. -- It's only we "old" people who can remember her songs.]

Jeannie ... I dare say that most here are as 'old as the hills' and have no problem remembering her songs.

Possibly - but I'm not convinced/

Fanny Crosby was a contemporary of Ellen White. FC was born in 1820, EGW in 1827, but they both died in 1915.

One of the greatest writers of Christian hymns, ever.

http://www.1timothy4-13.com/files/hymns/crosby.html