Gates arrest was improper.

[lazarus]

On Monday, Fox News Legal Analyst and former New Jersey state Judge Andrew Napolitano told to the conservative network’s audience that police broke the law when they arrested Professor Henry Louis Gates for disorderly conduct. Gates was charged with disorderly conduct during a conflict with police on his own property, but as Napolitano explained, the law only “allows an arrest for being disorderly if you are in public. … So if Professor Gates was arrested because of the words he used to police inside his house, on the front porch or on the front lawn, it was an improper arrest.” Napolitano added that police violated Gates’ Fourth Amendment rights the minute they entered his home without his permission:

The law says, unless [a police officer] witnesses a felony…or unless he has a piece of paper from a judge—a search warrant or an arrest warrant—saying “you can go in that house,” he can’t go in the house. So when Professor Gates said “no you can’t come in,” and the police went in anyway [the police] violated the federal Constitution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYo6dR0tf_I

[Woody]

Didn't know you were a Fox Watcher.

I am but I don't pay a lot of attention to the liberal Napolitano.

[lazarus]

What about the substance of what he said?

[lazarus]

In several cases, the courts in Massachusetts have considered whether a person is guilty of disorderly conduct for verbally abusing a police officer. In Commonwealth v. Lopiano, a 2004 decision, an appeals court held it was not disorderly conduct for a person who angrily yelled at an officer that his civil rights were being violated. In Commonwealth v. Mallahan, a decision rendered last year, an appeals court held that a person who launched into an angry, profanity-laced tirade against a police officer in front of spectators could not be convicted of disorderly conduct.

[Woody]

Sorry ... but refusing to show your ID is a crime. And people ARE sent to Jail for it.

[phkrause]

Come on Redwood, Napolitano is not a liberal! He is a conservative, and besides Fox news hires only conservative and you know that.

pk

[lazarus]

Sorry ... but refusing to show your ID is a crime. And people ARE sent to Jail for it.

It is not a crime to refuse to show ID or refuse to answer questions.

[Woody]

Then you are taken into the police office till they can verify you are the owner of the house.

[Dr. Shane]

I had something like this happen to me. My neighbors called the police very much like this situation. When the police showed up, I acted pretty much like Professor Gates. I got arrested and the charges were later dismissed. My situation was strikingly similar. The officer that arrested me was Hispanic and I am white but my case, like Professor Gate's case, had nothing to do with race.

Fact is that if the police have reasonable suspicion they can enter a house without a warrant. In this case, the 911 call reported two intruders and when the police arrived they only observed one person in the house. That in itself gave the police reasonable suspicion to enter the house. Now since Gates told them they could not come in, if they had found cocaine or something like that, it would not have been admissible in court.

I learned a big lesson that I am not sure Gates has learned. I thought that if I was innocent the police couldn't do anything to me. That is wrong. I learned that I need to cooperate with the police. When the police arrive they have to assume the worst. Police cannot afford to give people the benefit of the doubt. When they do that is when they end up getting killed. When in doubt a police officer will make the arrest and let the courts determine guilt or innocence. In both my case and that of Professor Gates, we got arrested because we couldn't keep our mouths shut and the courts later decided we did nothing illegal.

[Woody]

They should have arrested him for being a black activist.

[Tom Wetmore]

Here is a thoughtful article on the topic:

http://blog.sojo.net/2009/07/29/the-professor-and-the-police-officer-got-trapped-in-the-script/

[phkrause]

I agree 100% with you Shane. The officers didn't slap him around or treat him roughly, which if they wanted to they could've. He didn't even want to show them any ID till they ask him to step outside I believe. I believe he was the one that started the racial slurs. I wonder how the get together went at the white house?

pk

[lazarus]

I think there was wrong on both sides. I think Gates should have remained calm and I guess the whole situation would have turned out different. My guess is that Gates felt humiliated and angry that an officer was questioning him about his right to be in his own house.

Two years ago I was invited to a Confirmation hearing at one of the senate office buildings. It finished earlier than I thought it would so I went over to the Capitol building to look around some time before I went home.

When I arrived near the entrance I approached a Capitol police officer to ask where was the best place to go to hear any debates that were happening. We were right next to visitors center. There was a long line and I didn't want to wait in the line if it wasn't going to get me to where I wanted to go. His response was a gruff "there are no debates in here, just confirmations and this is a secure area" I was surprised at his response because he seemed so defensive and there were members of the public and other officers milling about. I responded that I thought I could hear the senators debate. Then he asked me if I was an American citizen and what I was doing here. He then asked me for my ID and again asked me what country I was from. I showed him my ID and asked if this was the normal response of an officer who is asked for information.

I started to back away and said "it's OK, I'll go to visitors center and get the information I need"

He said "you can't go in there".

I said, "what do you mean? It's a visitors center."

He said "why are you going in there"

At that point I had to count to 10 because I thought this might be the day when my mug shot would appear on the local news.

I could see another officer approach out of the corner of my eye. It seems as if he had been listening to the conversation or at least had seen that our interaction was not friendly. I turned to him and said I was having a problem getting information from his colleague asked where I could go and hear a debate.

"You can join that line sir and you'll be able to watch from the gallery", the other officer said.

I turned back to the first officer and said "so what was the problem?", "I need to get your name and number". Looking back I realized that I was really angry and stepped quite close to the officer. He gave me his name and number.

My parting shot was "you really have a problem and I'm definitely going to make a formal complaint"

Obviously, the officer would have given a different account. I can see how simple interactions can get crazy.

[Dr. Shane]

These things get crazy when we don't put ourselves in the other person's shoes. The police have to deal with all types. They have to assume the worst or they pay with their lives.

I come from an alcoholic and drug-addicted past. Because of my past, I was never taught to trust policemen. That was my problem. I judged the policeman's motive based on my past. The police have to assume the worst about me when they encounter me but I don't have to assume the worst about them. Most policemen are dedicated people that make our cities and states safer places to live and they are underpaid for the danger they put themselves in.

The problem in Gate's case isn't that the police made wrong assumptions about him. The problem was that he made wrong assumptions about them. The police asked him to step out of his house because there could have been two intruders in the house that Gates was unaware of. Gates automatically assumed it was a racial issue. He probably made that assumption based on his past.

Gates is the big loser in this whole incident. There are a lot of people loyal to him that are standing with him but he has undoubtedly lost respect among many that use to hold him in high esteem. The officer, on the other hand, has gotten support of several police organizations, handled himself with the utmost professionalism and eventually may get promoted - although it would never be officially tied to this incident.

Gates should have made an apology by now and summed up his behavior pretty much like General Colin Powell did. After the fact, looking back at it, I realized how stupid I acted by not cooperating with the police in my issue. If Gates fails to see that he brought this all on himself (just as I did), then he hasn't learned the lesson that is to be learned.

[phkrause]

I agree Shane.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

Here is a thoughtful article on the topic:

[Richard Holbrook]

Come on Redwood, Napolitano is not a liberal! He is a conservative, and besides Fox news hires only conservative and you know that.

pk

How can you say that pk? They have just as many libs on as they do conservatives. How do you explain someone like Allen Colmes? And all the liberals you see on there arguing with the conservatives are on the payroll. They call them Fox News contributors and they're paid well.

[Richard Holbrook]

So when Professor Gates said “no you can’t come in,” and the police went in anyway [the police] violated the federal Constitution.

The police violate the constitution all the time. This is nothing new, nor is it a black/white issue. I know for me if I come out on my porch and start mouthing off to a cop, I'm probably going to jail, or worse.

Law officers are very dangerous people, and I have enough common sense to treat them as such. One need not think that his words are going to have any kind of impact or change anything when it comes to Law enforcement. They pretty much do as they please in most cases, and without consequence.

They have an us against them mentality, and whatever they do will be backed up by their fellow officers. They simply do not think as we do.

[Richard Holbrook]

That being said, the officer in question here seems to have an excellent record when it comes to race relations.

[lazarus]

I'm sorry you have such a low opinion of the police. I believe the vast majority of officers are fair and do a great job in protecting our communities. A few spoil the image of the force. It's important that we are vigilant so that what you describe does not become a reality for everyone.

[Richard Holbrook]

I'm just speaking from experience. They will not tolerate a lot of verbal abuse. This is excactly what got Gates arrested.

[phkrause]

They should not have to take verbal abuse Richard.

pk

[bonnie]

They should not have to take verbal abuse Richard.

pk

If you have had a chance to listen to previous interviews with Gates you don't have to be a member of Mensa to know he is a racist pure and simple.

Obama seems to pick friends that are racist,socialist and worse.

[phkrause]

I agree with you on Gates. But Obama is also friends with Governor Patrick, and he is not a racist from what I've observed. I have friends that I know are racist, that doesn't make me one. As a matter of fact if you were to ask all my friends if they thought I was racist they would laugh at you. Most of my friends that I grew up with and hung out with growing up, were mostly black and hispanics. When I was in the army my best friends there were all black. My best friend here at my church is a jamaican. I think is sad that people can't get along and the first thing everyone thinks when situations like this come up is "racism".

pk

[bonnie]

I agree with you on Gates. But Obama is also friends with Governor Patrick, and he is not a racist from what I've observed. I have friends that I know are racist, that doesn't make me one. As a matter of fact if you were to ask all my friends if they thought I was racist they would laugh at you. Most of my friends that I grew up with and hung out with growing up, were mostly black and hispanics. When I was in the army my best friends there were all black. My best friend here at my church is a jamaican. I think is sad that people can't get along and the first thing everyone thinks when situations like this come up is "racism".

pk

Look over the years in his life. Read his books. Those that mentored him,those that have been friends for years. His pastor,the next one as well. Racist,socialist or like his "green czar" What a guy.Look him up.

Friends are usually chosen because you have core values at heart Doesn't mean you have to be the same color,or same religion.

When Obama speaks of what would be thought of as his core values and what you can see of friends there is little difference.

Listen closely when this man speaks.

I well remember when he threw his beloved "granny" under the bus.

She was a "typical white woman"

If I told you "Lazarus was a "typical black man" you would know without me saying anything else that I did not mean that in a complimentary way