Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 You see obeying the law is trying to obey a set of rules, but obeying the gospel is obeying a truth. Rob Quote
Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 2Th 1:8 - He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 1Pe 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? Quote
Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Quote: What does it mean to obey the gospel? Hint: Romans chapter 6 Quote
Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Romans 6:1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. 5 If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God. 11 In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Quote
Maschil Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 2Th 1:8 - He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 1Pe 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 2 Thes 2:14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. “glory of our Lord Jesus Christ” – That is referring to the character of Jesus Christ. Basic idea seems to be that those described have neglected to allow God to work in their own hearts will persecuting those who have. 1 Pet 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? “The gospel of God” – this is the Everlasting Gospel. The soul in the last days will be in danger, if he does not obey the Everlasting Gospel, the Three Angels’ Messages – Fear God, give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment is come and worship Him. context is the key Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2009 Moderators Posted August 2, 2009 You see obeying the law is trying to obey a set of rules, but obeying the gospel is obeying a truth. Rob I agree that obeying the law can be trying to obey a set of rules, but it need not be. The law of God is also the truth, and in the final analysis, both gospel and law agree. Where they disagree is when people attempt to obey the law apart from the Spirit, i.e., in the flesh. For instance, if I know that God's law says that it is wrong to commit immorality, I may try to obey the seventh or 10th commandment on my own, without the Spirit being in my life. At that point, I will certainly fail in the end. The gospel also tells me that I should not give my body's members for purposes of immorality, so the law and the gospel are in complete agreement. The difference lies in how I go about obeying the law. Do I try to do it in the flesh out of fear of punishment or desire for reward (Old Covenant works of law) or do I do it in the Spirit because of agape/love for Christ and righteousness (New Covenant works of faith)? It seems to me that makes all the difference. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 Obeying the gospel is surrendering yourself or your will to the truth as it is in Christ. Quote
Musicman1228 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I am a little confused over the presenting question. Are we to obey a message (the gospel), the messenger (Jesus Christ), or the being that sent the messenger (the Father). And which gospel are we to be obedient too; The gospel of Jesus, the gospel of Paul, the gospel of the cross, the gospel of grace, the gospel of the Kingdom? Robert said, "Obeying the gospel is surrendering yourself or your will to the truth as it is in Christ." Is this a passive obedience, where all I have to do is 'give up' and I am in the will of God, or are we to actively seek the Truth as a means of being obedient to God? And if so then which truth is it that we are to seek, since most Christians don't believe we can ever attain to the full knowledge of the Truth? Sorry, right now I have a lot of questions. Can someone distill the answer down to something that even I can understand? Help. Quote
Robert Posted August 2, 2009 Author Posted August 2, 2009 This is obeying the gospel: 6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. .... 10 The death he died, he died to sin once for all.... 11 In the same way [as our old self was crucified with Him], count [reckon] yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Quote
olger Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 Obeying the gospel is buying all of Sequiera's books. Truly you should have known, G Quote "Please don't feed the drama queens.."
Musicman1228 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 I am sorry that I didn't know that buying those books meant obedience. Robert, For my sake could you also find where Jesus said what gospel we should be obedient too? Thanks. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted August 2, 2009 Moderators Posted August 2, 2009 This is obeying the gospel: .... count [reckon] yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. How much response to sin does a dead man have? Absolutely none, right? So if I am to reckon myself dead to sin, that means I should not be responding to temptations to sin. And if the Scriptures teach this, we can be sure that it is not impossible. God isn't asking us to do what is impossible, is he? I believe that through the Holy Spirit, believers can resist every temptation to sin and overcome all sins in their life. I know that there's no sin in my life that God can't empower me to overcome-- yes, even hereditary weaknesses. Of course, the Holy Spirit doesn't convict us of every sin in our lives all at once, or it would be overwhelming and very discouraging. And in the meantime, God gives us the certain knowledge that in His eyes, we're accepted in the Beloved!! But He gives us NOW the same power that resurrected Jesus' dead body to life. Rom. 8: 11. THAT IS THE GREATEST POWER KNOWN TO MAN. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Musicman1228 Posted August 2, 2009 Posted August 2, 2009 How much of a response to the truth can a dead man have? Absolutely none. Quote
Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 Obeying the gospel is buying all of Sequiera's books. Truly you should have known, G Bingo...Now you've got it... Quote
wayfinder Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Gal.2:20,21 "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." If I have been crucified with Christ; I no longer live (I am dead). If righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly. Therefore if I keep the Law I abrogate Christ's death. Quote
Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 Originally Posted By: Robert This is obeying the gospel: .... count [reckon] yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. How much response to sin does a dead man have? Absolutely none, right? So if I am to reckon myself dead to sin, that means I should not be responding to temptations to sin. A dead man can't sin, right? Neither can a dead man keep the law.... Paul is using a metaphor....Just as our old life died in the body of Christ (that which saves), as a believer we should consider ourselves dead to sin and alive to God. That's obeying the gospel. How do we reckon or consider ourselves dead to sin? Is it by doing something? It is by observing the law? No! Go to John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Did you get that? "In Christ" your old life came to and end. You died to the law in the body of Christ. The justice of the law has been satisfied because you died "in Christ". You have been justified unto life.....You stand perfect "in Christ". This is what saves.... 4 Abide in Me [keep the faith], and I in you [Christ in you]. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing So to reckon yourself dead to sin means to surrender the mind to the truth as it is "in Christ". Since you died to sin once and for all in Him, surrender your mind to this truth. Hence "I die daily".... Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 You're twisting the text wayfinder Quote
Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 Therefore if I keep the Law I abrogate Christ's death. Well, no one is fully keeping the law as did Christ....Therefore if one thinks he can keep the law as a means of salvation he/she has abrogated Christ's death. However, the fruits done by Christ through us (as we obey the gospel) are in harmony with the law.... Quote
Robert Posted August 3, 2009 Author Posted August 3, 2009 You're twisting the text wayfinder No, not really: Gal 3:10 All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11 Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." 14 He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit. 15 Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ. 17 What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18 For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise. 19 What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator. 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one. 21 Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law. 22 But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe. 23 Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24 So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law. Quote
wayfinder Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 Robert, Thank you, that is what I was going to post. Quote
Richard Holbrook Posted August 3, 2009 Posted August 3, 2009 The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. God's Law was in heaven. That's what they fought over. Quote
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