Refugee

February 8, 2005

Quote:

…hope your smile is better than Louie’s.

-- after spending $6,000 on it??? I should hope so!! It had better be!!!

Quote:

There does seem to be a bit of a buzz. Unfortunate. Nevertheless, if there is anything within any .Org needing revisiting, perhaps, it ought to be done before its foundations are severely tested, --to its detriment or, more importantly, to the detriment of those relying upon the expected and solid exposition of Gd’s word --by those who’ve accepted the mantle of responsibility to provide the flock --that solid exposition.

I agree with one qualifier: don't waste time relying on some designated "expert" to do that exposition for you. Start doing it for yourself. Start studying it out yourself. Yes it is scary. Yes it can leave you feeling unmoored for a time. But is your faith in the Living God or is it in your understanding of His Truth? His Truth is as timeless and eternal as He is, but we are not saved by Gnosis nor faith in how perfect is our knowledge of history or theology. We are saved by knowing the Living God: "And this is eternal life: that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom Thou hast sent."

Quote:

I think Dr Ben, is on track to advise personal study of Gd’s word.

Amen to that! Why do you omit vowels for the word God, by the way? Are you of Jewish origin? I've known Jewish folks to do that, which is why I asked, though they tend to do it like "G-d" instead. I think it derives from respect for the original Name YHVH having been written without vowels and therefore uncertain in its pronunciation, although we clearly know how to pronounce the generic English word "God"! It is meant to symbolise respect? or something else?

February 8, 2005

Quote:

Pray pardon, M’Lady of the Faire! ‘Tis I, your servant, t'is well met indeed.

‘Neath a summer sky with winter moon was I christened Penult, born of the Skyors borne of the east wind, --and am, these past few season’s turning, called Penult of the Shield, the Dream Shield. Its herald a red-barked cypress unknown, an eagle stayed, --vigilant upon the dexter searching the enemies of milord; on the sinister rest, or abode --of the field is the large white owl, its eyes sinister-wards. An eaglet not shed its down lies, shorn of life, --‘neath the tree.

We are arrived at this faire for quest --the lèvre fleure of thrice count of hand and one, which sealed the fabled eastern gate. Mayhap, Your Ladyship, that thine is the telling of it?

Well met then, Penult of the Dream Shield. I have not heard tell of this thrice-hand-count-and-one-fold lèvre fleure sealing of the fabled eastern gate, but t'would delight me an' you would fain grace me with the sharing of this tale, perhaps over victuals? Behold, I have with me two fair pints of mead, along with spiced apples and a hunk of fresh cheese ... care to join me?

Nico [/not sure where this is going...]

February 8, 2005

Quote:

The above begs the question, was it Crozier’s prerogative to ‘open’ that, which was shut by Gd? or to ‘unseal’ what was sealed by Gd? --arbitrarily and prematurely?

Or how about that fellow who discovered the benzene ring because he dreamed about it? There's a handful of such stories -- important discoveries being the results of dream messages and the like.

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

…Why do you omit vowels for the word God, by the way? Are you of Jewish origin? I've known Jewish folks to do that, which is why I asked, though they tend to do it like "G-d" instead. I think it derives from respect for the original Name YHVH having been written without vowels and therefore uncertain in its pronunciation, although we clearly know how to pronounce the generic English word "God"! It is meant to symbolise respect? or something else?

It grew out of a family gathering where the talk evolved to the ‘Gd forums’. I began to peruse the Gd forums, beginning with some I supposed were Jewish --having encountered the omission of the vowel sound. I later ran into the omission of even the hyphen. I thought that was economical and copied. Since falling into that convention --it became practice.

I believe it is a sign of respect with a nuance of ineffableness attached, regardless, that at one time the COI were commanded to voice the name of Gd. Is has, to my knowledge, since been lost.

jasd

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

…/not sure where this is going…]

Forsooth! [/smile] --the dance of an effervescing hatch of mayflies is altogether too brief, you’ve trumped.

There sprang out of the Malibu hills (California) every year a Renaissance Faire --the hottest ‘ticket’ on the coast. I suppose that had I been more attuned to the spiritual aspects of the Faire, rather than to my more natural and mundane wanderings, I might have remembered more. As it is,

I’ve exhausted my lingua faire:-(

jasd

February 8, 2005

Oops! it's

ermadsclb

...as jasd comments upon the above post.

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

...the benzene ring because he dreamed...

The benzene/ouroborus connection has always amazed me; but my favorite dream/invention story was of the lock-stitch needle... the mental block, dreaming of being in a cooking pot with cannibals in anticipation of a good meal, --and observing holes in the native’s spearpoints! et voila! the sewing machine… or was that an urban legend?

We’re agreed upon the point of dreams. I would, though, as pertains the present subject, appeal to the qualifiers

/ Crozier admitted to naught --but having been inspired.

/ Is Gd and His commandment:-) to be conveniently circumnavigated?

What I purport is --that when Gd commands --a Book be sealed --until…

one might consider it --sealed --until… Further,

the yield from a premature foray into its (book of Daniel) parsing should be (re)viewed with a very jaundiced eye.

That, of course, exempts from stricture the already self-interpreted passages that are available to meditate upon.

Summing, one might be advisably chary about a devise whose character is inherently derived by withstanding of a Gd-spoken injunction.

That is not to say that it is not _now_ time to exposit the book of Daniel and THAT may prove to be less boring.

So, guys, am I is or am I not --Biblical?

jasd

February 8, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

…what if, texts attesting to Gd’s Old Testamental withdrawal of the Sabbath from the COI,…

So, we have

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

voicing the terrible solemnity from Gd upon the Northern Kingdom.

Did the Southern Kingdom of Judah escape the pronouncement? in very fact, a curse?

jasd

February 9, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

Bravus<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

use the buttons to edit

‘edit buttons'? looking, looking, looking,…

If it isn’t the mentis that's shot, it’s gotta be the eyes.

Thanks, anyway.

jasd

February 9, 2005

Bravus<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

use the buttons to edit

‘edit buttons'? looking, looking, looking,…

If it isn’t the mentis that's shot, it’s gotta be the eyes.

Thanks, anyway.

jasd

February 9, 2005

Quote:

at one time the COI were commanded to voice the name of Gd. Is has, to my knowledge, since been lost.

COI? = Children of Israel?

February 9, 2005

Quote:

Forsooth! [/smile] --the dance of an effervescing hatch of mayflies is altogether too brief, you’ve trumped.

...

I’ve exhausted my lingua faire:-(

This is good, as I'd long exhausted mine. I don't think I've been to the Renaissance Faire since the late 1980s.

February 9, 2005

Don't mind the above several posts,

I'm trying to find the 'edit' button(s) or the editing sequence --without posting additionally, a rework.

dink me

jasd

February 9, 2005

Quote:

What I purport is --that when Gd commands --a Book be sealed --

until…

one might consider it --sealed --

until…

Who's to say "until" is not now? Who shall say Time Is not? For indeed, many do run to and fro, and knowledge -- gnosis, global awareness, technology -- is indeed increased ....

Quote:

Further,

the yield from a premature foray into its (book of Daniel) parsing should be (re)viewed with a very jaundiced eye.

That, of course, exempts from stricture the already self-interpreted passages that are available to meditate upon.

Indeed. I think as always the devil has been in the details -- the attempt to make ten kingdoms match ten toes so as to match a strict literalist view of ten kingdoms in Revelation (the ten horns of the beast) has led to error where actual history records a variant (and varying) number of iron/clay kingdoms.

Quote:

That is not to say that it is not _now_ time to exposit the book of Daniel and THAT may prove to be less

boring.

Quite. A new exposition would be refreshing. Since I feel I lived through chapter four as the kingdom rather than the king, I can so relate to the revelation in that chapter itself ...

February 10, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

at one time the COI were commanded to voice the name of Gd. Is has, to my knowledge, since been lost.

COI? = Children of Israel?

(I've selected this post for its brevity; perhaps, the less chance of a screw-up, and will continue experimenting until I'm able to deal with the mechanics of these boards.)

Here's hoping...

Per COI, yes, ...sorry, I assumed it was the modus operandi on the SDA forums. (I didn't visit much.)

February 10, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

at one time the COI were commanded to voice the name of Gd. Is has, to my knowledge, since been lost.

COI? = Children of Israel?

(I've selected this post for its brevity; perhaps, there'll be less chance of a screw-up, --and will continue experimenting until I'm able to deal with the mechanics of these boards.)

Here's hoping...

Per COI, yes, ...sorry, I assumed it was the modus

on the SDA forums. (I didn't visit much.)

jasd

Okay, I've edited the post. Let me see if it reappears edited, or if it appears as a new post...

February 10, 2005

Yikes! List is reaaally List, --bullets,

and it posts as a redundancy, rather than an edited post. [/sigh]

Well, I'll see if I can google instructions for editing sometime or t'other. So,

cutting the bulldust...

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

What I purport is --that when Gd commands --a Book be sealed –until…

one might consider it --sealed –until…

Who's to say "until" is not now? Who shall say Time Is not? For indeed, many do run to and fro, and knowledge -- gnosis, global awareness, technology -- is indeed increased ....

Aptly stated, my sentiment, indeed. As to the now, I am persuaded that (for some few reasons) it is now that the

Mat 13:52 Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe [which is] instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man [that is] an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure [things] new and old.

scribe/expositor/steward is to bring forth both new and old from the book of Daniel --as well as, from elsewhere in Writ.

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

That is not to say that it is not _now_ time to exposit the book of Daniel…

…has led to error where actual history records a variant (and varying) number of iron/clay kingdoms.

Using your quote above as segue, --there is a portion of a text, following…

Dan 2:43 …they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another,…

that is innately enigmatic. Who are the ‘they’ that shall mingle themselves… with the seed of men? A casual reading seemingly, singularly isolates the passage from the more utilized and ordinary means of exposition. It is suggestively anomalous, if not indeed, so. An incisive and judicial reading of the passage brings one full circle.

Speaking of “and varying”…, by the turn of the last century there was an accumulation in the community of Bible expositors of 28 +/- lists selectively incorporating an individually favored or rationalized 10 of 65 (give or take) tribal units in the wasting Empire of Western Rome.

I believe I am correct to note that the cataloging of the vast numbers of migratory tribal units in the chaotically shifting landscape --of what constituted the last vestiges of The Western Roman Empire, can hardly be termed an exact science. Forces impelling the great migration of humanity throughout Europe, ca. late fourth - fifth century, had their origins from as far away, as the reaches of Mongolia, the central steppes of Asia, and Persia. Inasmuch, as it is an open secret that

at least several of the pioneers of the .Org embraced lists discrepant one from the other(s), one wonders why the mention of it is perceived --as threatening. One might s'pose that some hold constructives to be bulls.

jasd

February 10, 2005

jasd....

If you register you can still post here. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and a couple of other places... get your name now beofre someone else may grab it.

February 12, 2005

Stan <blockquote>Quote:<hr />

If you register you…

I’d hardly spent time perusing these boards before submitting a post several weeks ago; so, …hadn’t the feel of it --to ascertain the spirit of these boards, --to take the measure of it, as it were. I’d thought to allow myself a bit more time to do so, what with other interests.

Accepting, your post above as composed in a courteous and optimum good spirit, I am constrained to ignore that the calendar is pushed up and will, come Monday, …or Tuesday latest, register with a check by post.

Per my name:-o I’d like to meet that intrepid traveler who would choose to make the association that name connotes --his. [/the nerve!] Any-the-way, reserve jasd for me, if you please,

Thanks,

jasd

February 12, 2005

Before posting further to this thread, I’d like to

indicate that those ‘experimental’ posts of mine having the appearance of Rorschach tests are disappointing in that they add, to some degree, an unfortunate stitch to whatever form or semblance that may otherwise exist. Sorry.

February 12, 2005

Given,

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

KJV Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

YLT Dan 12:4 …hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied.

and rightfully, dismissing the notion that ‘running to and for’ implies a running to and fro through any/and/or a scroll, let’s review a few facts gleaned from recent stats and almanacs…

It is my opinion that the book of Daniel could not have been exegetically corollary to Writ in general until…

the two conditions of Daniel 12:4 were/are met concurrently.

“There is something fascinating about science (or other system(s)?). One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.” --Mark Twain [/meum ac vestrum culpa?] [ed. italics:mine]

Running to and fro:

In the year 1999-00 US-flagged airlines had 650 million emplanements. The same year 80 million* Americans elected to fly to their destination. ‘Running to and fro’ Americans in that same year traveled by train, by bus, by boat, by car, etc. The numbers of them are unavailable, as are the numbers of travelers, by whatever means, --of other countries. One suspects those travelers of foreign lands would number in the multiples of American travelers.

*(the stats for 2004 note that a quarter of America’s population passed through Chicago’s O’Hare)

Moreover, man has gone to the moon --and to that, we might add that we are determined to soon place man upon our neighbour Mars, as well. Barring the unforeseen, such as, a (Hot) WWIII…, there is every indication man will succeed in doing so.

To what extent _more_ will man have to ‘run to and fro’ --between now and the expectant near Advent before the two passages of Daniel 12:4 are seen to find their confluence? and the Book, in timely manner, unsealed?

In that it pertains to expositions of Daniel, one can hardly subscribe to much of the centuries old dogma accumulated and embodied in present orthodoxy by sundry and collective .Orgs. Some few centuries ago man, for the most part, was born, lived out his life, and died within a twenty-mile radius, --hardly, running to and fro.

I believe Writ suggests an ‘end time’ having its beginning per se, at or approximating 1982-3 AD.

Am I is or am I not Biblical?

jasd

February 12, 2005

1982-3? That's interesting. Never heard that before. Which Writ suggests that?

LD

February 12, 2005

Quote:

Inasmuch, as it is an open secret that

at least several of the pioneers of the .Org embraced lists discrepant one from the other(s), one wonders why the mention of it is perceived --as threatening.

I think because somewhere along the line the .Org latched onto the notion that we MUST correlate the iron/clay kingdoms with TEN toes of the image to go with the TEN horns on the beast. So this leaves us asking -- were there at that time ten KING-doms? Not merely tribal units or fiefdoms but ten KINGS? Because if not then clearly it is symbolic, ten being but a number of "the fullness of number", a number of counted completion.

February 12, 2005

Quote:

I believe Writ suggests an ‘end time’ having its beginning per se, at or approximating 1982-3 AD.

Why have you chosen THAT TIME PERIOD???? Why 1982-1983?????????

I must know. You must tell me. [/eyes ablaze with fierce intelligence]

February 13, 2005

<blockquote>Quote:<hr />

…what if, texts attesting to Gd’s Old Testamental withdrawal of the Sabbath from the COI,…

So, we have

Hos 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.

voicing the terrible solemnity from Gd upon the Northern Kingdom.

Did the Southern Kingdom of Judah escape the pronouncement? in very fact, a curse?

Lam 2:6 …the LORD hath caused the solemn feasts and sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion,…

As Hosea was prophet to the Northern Kingdom, Jeremiah was prophet to the Southern Kingdom of Judah --with Lamentations being his 'book of tears'. Writ addresses the subject of a calendrical reference _inherent_ in the text by Hosea. Judah emerged from the Captivity possessed of vestiges of the Babylonian calendar, which had its final formulation ca. 4th century AD and is known as the Hillel calendar. By and large, it is an approximation of the OT calendar(s) --(note esp: the postponements).

The cov'nant, 'tis breached… abandonar! threni, threni, lamentations! the wicked trod His rest…

Hide, hide an' shroud now, afore the profane sear o'wizened eye lies foul 'pon that holy made!

Hide, hide an' turn'way, the debauched form that altar-lay, obscene scent o'mortal deed!

Horror, an' shuddering flesh to see the rag o'Gd-torn veil made wove a caul o' 'membrance kept…

Deh! sanctus, sanctus Deis Sabbati! Lord Gd o'power an' might, His day, His holy rest,

Deh, aspicio… behold! now holy shrined midst holiness, pr'served, concealed 'til crowns are gi'en!

Take the above with a grain of salt. It is elliptical and meant to be taken dispassionately, --clinically.

The condition, as set forth in the above irregular verse, removes neither jot nor tittle; neither does it compromise its eternal character. It simply states that per Hosea and Jeremiah, the Sabbath was pretermitted and removed from the COI without later text supporting the disposition of it; that, yet-future-to-us, is another matter. The idea that Gd withholds what He will, and did so --from the COI, is attested-to on more than one occasion --in Writ.

I post ‘as others see’ --that, if interested, we, who are halting, might be obliged to strop our swords-of-the-word --that we may be better equipped, adding to the armor of the word, rightfully divided.

jasd

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