Church vs World --- Who's Winning?

[CGMedley]

Jewelry. Movies. Dancing. Are church standards disappearing? Are they relevant in today's postmodern society? Author Erica Richards asks these questions in her thought provoking article "Drowning in a Sea of Grey." You can read it in this week's Adventist Review.

http://www.adventistreview.org/issue.php?issue=2009-1525&page=16

[Gerr]

"For most of my childhood I was not allowed to eat meat, drink coffee, go to the movie theater, wear nail polish, wear jewelry, listen to rock/pop music, go to dances, or play violent video games."

Are all of these Bible standards? Or man-made rules?

[Woody]

Our church needs ONE standard.

DO YOU LOVE JESUS OR WANT TO KNOW HIM?

IF so ... you are welcome in our church.

[fccool]

I love how the same issues just tend to come up....

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Can we ask other questions?

1) Definition of dancing is rhythmic motion to music... or could be any type of choreographed movement. Is aerobic dancing? What if people dance for the same reasons that people do aerobics? Do you think that it's possible to dance for enjoyment without any kind of underlying sexual context?

2) Do you think it's possible to enjoy a movie and get out the best possible conclusions and walk away learning something about a world... just like by reading a book? Did you know that the Bible contains violence, explicit sexual/erotic language, and cussing. What's the difference between watching a movie in a movie theater, and watching the same movie at home... other than the place? Do Christians only suppose to watch Christian "clean" films, or read sterile Christian books?

3) What's the difference between a $1000 ring and $3000 handbag, or $2000 suit? If the humble apparel is the issue, then why not discuss handbags or limitless shoe supplies? What's so special about a piece of shiny trinket on someone's hand? What if that trinket makes it's way from the neck to the belt? How about if it's hanging as an ornament on a decked out car, which is worth half the average house?

[fccool]

Hey dgrimm

Thank you for your comment.

I guess the difference of mine and your view on the subject is that you see those things as somehow "compromising" our belief system. Why? I again and again bring up these examples that are just being brushed aside without proper consideration.

God did not intend us to only read the Bible, or only listen to Christian music, or shop only in Christian book stores, or have only Christian friends. God requires us to actively engage this world, without making any compromises. It is possible, although not in mind of older generation. If I'm out ballroom dancing with my wife... can you PLEASE!!!! explain to me the mentality behind the "devil can get you" comment? Since when is rhythmically moving to music is sin?

Literature and film are two different mediums. Christian literature tends to be very watered down and idealistic representation of life. It describes Christian people that do not exist in real word or even the Bible. Jesus went places that normal people thought were "sinful". We have these set up extra Biblical double standards that we extrapolate from PRINCIPLES... and not from solid and clear scripture. Ussually what I see is two verses that barely touch the issue being canonized into Laws of God concerning human behavior.

So, to answer your questions and concerns.

1) No, I'm not advocating for Christians to hit the nightclubs dancing the night away. That's not my point. The point is that DANCE IS A GREAT AND EXPRESSIVE FORM OF ART as well as great excercise. But we throw away baby with the bathwater in order to avoid the "compromises".

2) Sure, there's plenty of great Christian literature... but most of the literature I've read does not deal with real and deeply philosophical issues of today ... in visual and thought-provoking way. There are very few mediums that can compete with film on that level. But again, we throw away every potential benefit because of the "dangers of the compromising". What are we compromising by watching a film and making our own conclusions based on pre-existing knowledge that we have???

We are so against the "unhealthy atmosphere" of the movie theater... without realizing that you don't have to buy anything but the movie!!! Why pay for the movie? For the same reason you'd pay for a book. You don't have to go and see trash that comes out, but there are plenty of films with great content and underlying message. But we are so rather be stuck in the "safety bubble" that we are afraid that Devil is gonna get us, or God will punish us for watching a film . I find it rather silly.

[fccool]

Dr. Grimm

Thank you for your reply, but again you are thinking from the context of the "spiritual bubble" that we are to maintain.

Quote:

When the scribes of the Pharisees saw that He was eating with the sinners and tax collectors, they said to His disciples, "Why is He eating and drinking with tax collectors and sinners?

There this idea exists in minds of our older generation that some things Christians should not be seen doing, or some things ... for the sake of the "unbelievers" we should not do to maintain the "Christian image".

And I agree with you, BUT the problem is where you DRAW THE LINE. Your idea of "drawing the line is distancing yourself" from anything that is "unclean". Let me talk to you in language you can understand. I hope that your are vegetarian, and you can relate.

I often go on dates to a restaurant with my wife. Now, here in Iowa we don't have many vegetarian places to choose, because the farm folk is fond of meat. WE ARE VEGETARIANS. We are going to the place that serves meat. WE CHOOSE WHAT WE CAN EAT, AND WE LEAVE WHAT WE CAN'T.

Now, imagine that your stomach is your mind. And imagine that you've dedicated your mind to vegetarianism. You can choose what you take away from any given situation. That's the whole point of mind transformation is being able to discern, and not being afraid of certain things.

See, we teach our young people to avoid ... instead teaching them to discern and think and dissect. And when they grow up and something new and "strange" comes along, they are doing what they were taught to do... to avoid it, instead of dissect it and take away something, or even start doing it BETTER THAN THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES IT.

See, with such mentality, there's no such thing as a Christian Ball room teacher/dancer, or a Christian film producer, or a Christian Jeweler, or Christian Electric Guitar player.

Granted that there are some things that are inherently destructive... like alcohol, and drugs... YET even doctors use smaller quantities of these to save lives.

So, please, don't chug the whole thing out of the window "for the sake of the newly converts". I think it would be a great example to set for the newly converts to BE REAL, and not put up a CHRISTIAN FRONT for their sake... as much of the behavior between 9-1 on Saturday I equate to a trained act, rather than to reality. Gossip is fairly prevalent, and rumors spread like lightning.

My point is not that we should not strive for higher standards. My point is that you don't teach discernment by COMPLETELY AVOIDING THE ISSUE. There are should be underlying reasons, and there are should be lines drawn.

I went to Christian college and done some documentary work on pornography in church. The same themes are coming over and over again:

Church avoids the subject of sex, the teens are curious and choose pornography as education material... because they can't have sex... they end up vicariously experiencing it through porn, and as a result we had 85% of surveyed people admittedly used pornographic material within last MONTH. I know they did, because I did too early on in life for the same reasons.

That's the culture that we are leaving behind by putting on a mask, and avoiding the issues instead of sublimating the issues and showing people that we can do these things God's way.

Yet, instead we choose to think that God's way is to avoid the issue all together by means of "The church position on this issue is"... discussion killer. If you understood their frustration with this approach, we would have much more young people in church today.

[Gerr]

HEY GERRY CABALO

THE bible talks about our bodies are the temple of GOD

so as for as eating and drinking things that weaken

the bodies which is not good for us...

and the bible also talks about what we behold we become

so by listening and going to the wrong type of entertainment

is also weakening our minds which is not good for us...

the devil is trying to water down the bible and weaken

and person that claims to be a christian....

dgrimm60

Does the Bible proscribe ALL movies? APPROVE ONLY country/western & European classical music?

[Woody]

Quote:

Does the Bible proscribe ALL movies? APPROVE ONLY country/western

The only 'good' movies are the Westerns from the 1950s. As you can tell .... I love my Westerns Channel on Direct TV.

[Gerr]

If that is the criteria to be used. then NOT ALL movies are bad and not to be proscribed as

some who think that watching ANY movie is downgrading church standards. There are movies

that make me reflective and drive me closer to Christ. Other than the time spent. those I

watch I don't believe drive me away from God. The same could be said about music.