Latest cautions on vaccinations

[LifeHiscost]

This is from Health Sciences Institute, an information forum for those interested in taking charge of their own health.

Dear Reader,

My friend, Claudia, sounded frantic.

She called to tell me she'd just heard about the FDA approval of the H1N1 vaccine. The approval had her worried that the virus was worse than she thought. She was mostly concerned about her young son. Should she get him vaccinated, as recommended by the CDC?

Of course, she'll have to make that decision on her own. But the FDA approval? Absolutely no shock there. If the agency hadn't approved the vaccine, THAT would have been truly shocking.

So...if the FDA says the vaccine is okay, and the CDC recommends it, why are so many health care workers planning to just say no?

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Smarter than vaccines

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"Just don't try giving me the swine flu vaccine."

That quote is from Dr. John Crippen, a general practitioner who writes about health issues for the UK newspaper The Guardian.

In a recent column, he added: "On the facts available to date, I will not be having it. Nor will my family. I will not be the only doctor taking this view."

He's got that right. The British Medical Journal reports that in a recent survey of Hong Kong health care workers, about half said they would refuse the H1N1 vaccine. They offered two reasons: 1) doubts about efficacy, and 2) concern about side effects.

A UK poll produced similar results and we've heard the same report about U.S. health care workers. But it's not surprising at all. Every year, a large percentage of these workers turn down the seasonal flu shot, even when it's free and available with the greatest of ease in their workplace.

But why would they pass up a chance to avoid the big bad swine flu? After all, these professionals are not mainstream medical skeptics – they ARE the medical mainstream.

Dr. Crippen: "I did trust the government when it introduced an emergency vaccination programme for smallpox. But smallpox was a deadly disease and the vaccination was tried, tested and proven. The swine flu immunisation is being rushed out. It is of uncertain efficacy. It is to be given to prevent a disease which, as yet, is mild...if the virus mutates to a more virulent form, the immunisation may in any case not work."

A similar comment appeared in an MSNBC report – this from an anonymous nurse, posted on nurse.com: "I'm not rolling up my sleeve for anyone. It's my opinion that flu vaccines are hit and miss at best, and by the time the virus mutates its way into the population, the original vaccine is kaput. Viruses are smarter than vaccines."

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In case of emergency...

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As adamant as Dr. Crippen and "anonymous nurse" are, they might be blindsided by this H1N1 vaccine detail: Choice might not be part of the equation.

This past August, the New York State Health Department issued an emergency order that makes the H1N1 vaccine and the seasonal flu vaccine MANDATORY for thousands of state health workers.

Other health institutions are following suit.

Last month, Loyola University Health System in Chicago informed more than 7,800 employees that a 2009 seasonal flu vaccination is a condition of employment. Those who opt out will also opt out of their jobs. Period. Loyola officials are also expected to make the H1N1 vaccine mandatory when it becomes available this month.

This overreaction is way out of bounds. As Barbara Loe Fisher of the National Vaccine Information Center points out in the MSNBC article, health authorities are treating the H1N1 virus as a public health emergency even though there's no evidence that it's going to be more virulent than the seasonal flu.

I just hope the CDC isn't getting any big ideas about overselling the seasonal flu shot next year.

Underlined mine LHC

BTW In a statistical report re: a recently released vaccine, name beyond recall, it was found that of those polled who didn't take the vaccine there was one who died linked to the disease. Of those who were vaccinated, there were five deaths

linked to the disease. I'm supposing all things were taken into consideration including an equal number on each side of those taking the vaccination and those not.

Good health to you!

[LifeHiscost]

HEY LIFEHISCOST

WELL that is an interesting article about the H1N1

and that many health care workers in UK not wanting

to get the shots.....

dgrimm60

And good health to you, dgrimm60.

[nuff sed]

I decided not to get Flu Shots and have not for several years........BUT.. our Sabbath School teacher (a doctor) took time at the beginning of the lesson last Sabbath to try to get across to our class (median age 72) that this time it would be the height of foolishness not to get both local and Swine Fever innoculations.

I won't go into all the reason he cited but he has me almost convinced to 'quit fooling around' and do it.

[Nan]

I last had a flu shot about 40 years ago . I found that when I was

working in general practice I would get a bad bout of whatever was doing the rounds once every 2 or 3 years, and assumed that it took about that long for something to emerge which my immune system had not met before.

Do not take that to mean I am against the vaccines, I am not, but it is just not something I ever got round to doing.

I know of at least 2 deaths of pregnant women from swine flu, in this

State, over our winter. I do not recall hearing of the death of a pregnant woman from other flus in the recent past, though it may have happened.

To have the vaccine should be a matter of personal choice...our government has purchased enough to give to every person over 10 who wants it,in this country.

[Dr. Shane]

I can't get it because I have had Guillain-Barré Syndrome but my wife and kids will.

[Tallmark]

All shots are poison. So are mamograms, colonoscopies, chemotherapy, and radiation. If that quack ever talked that trash in a SS class that I was in, I would give him a verbal (and maybe physical) butt whuppin'.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026955_swine_flu_vaccines_flu_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026953_thimerosal_autism_mercury.html

You all can do what you want, but one of my role models is Jack LaLane. He celebrated his 95th birthday last Sunday. He drives, works out 2 hours a day, and is a better proponent of the health message than most (not all) SDA's. Jack hasn't had any kind of shot since he was 16. Do the math. I can't believe that most people will listen to a doctor who many times looks a lot older than his/her actual age, and usually look weak.

Catholics worship statues, Christians worship a cross, and Adventists worship doctors.

[phkrause]

I for one don't care to take any shots, but I have to ask, are they getting these shots for free? If they are paying for this, than I see that there trying to make money, but if not than there might be a ligit case for them wanting to give these shots to the general public.

pk

[phkrause]

The reason I ask dgrimm is, I drive by some pharmacy's and see signs saying flu shots given here. I was just wondering if they were free or not. That's why I said if they are free they have nothing to gain by asking people to take these shots, but if you are correct and they are charging for them, well now its a different story. There asking you to take them so they can make money. Than those links that Tallmark posted make more sense.

pk

[Amelia]

Anyplace offering flu shots charge a fee. In my area they are running between $20-$25. My sister gets her shot for free because she works for the city and they get all kinds of stuff free. My compoany is offering the shots but charging $23. I haven't asked my clinic/doc what they charge.

[Tommie]

Medicare and a few other insurances can be billed. Others need to pay, usually, around $25. As a hospital employee, I can get the shot for nothing if I want but I don't want. At one time it was said that those 65+ would have a natural immunity to H1N1 but that age has been lowered to 25+. My age group is the former. I'm with Tallmark and I declined the shot. I feel that healthy living and God can go farther to protect me than man made vaccinations. It's fine with me if everyone around me takes the shot but I want to have the right to refuse.

[Dr. Shane]

one of my role models is Jack LaLane. He celebrated his 95th birthday last Sunday. He drives, works out 2 hours a day, and is a better proponent of the health message than most (not all) SDA's. Jack hasn't had any kind of shot since he was 16. Do the math.

The number one factor in longevity is genetics. That is why some faithful vegetarians die before they are 65 and some smokers live until they are 90.

That said, the vegetarian that dies at 62 would have likely died a few years earlier had he or she not lived healthy. The guy that dies smoking at 92 may have lived to be 100 if they had not smoked.

Vaccines have risks. Not getting a vaccine also has risks. The CDC does a risk assessment and makes recommendations. Because I have had Guillain-Barré Syndrome, the CDC recommends that I not get the flu vaccine. I have a greater risk of serious complications from Guillain-Barré Syndrome reoccurring than from the flu.

[Dr. Shane]

HEY PKRAUSE

most flu shots cost I have never heard of a

free flu shot

dgrimm60

One of the benefits of my company is that all employees get a free flu shot. They let my wife get mine since I cannot.

[phkrause]

Well Shane that is rather nice of them. Some companies would probably not do that.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

We live in a sinful world. No matter how well we live, we still have to deal with the effects of sin. Disease is one of those effects. Righteous men get sick and die even when they live healthfully.

Who will not take an antibiotic when they get an infection?

We are not Scientologists. We are Adventists. Vaccinations are not against our religion. Yes, the vaccines will make some sick and may even kill some. However not getting it one may still get sick and die. It is a risk assessment and none of us on this board have enough of the facts to make a sound assessment of our own. We either trust the CDC to do that or, we have so much distrust for the government, that we do not trust them. Either way - - - this is not about faith in God or the health message. This is about how much we trust government.

[LifeHiscost]

All shots are poison. So are mamograms, colonoscopies, chemotherapy, and radiation. If that quack ever talked that trash in a SS class that I was in, I would give him a verbal (and maybe physical) butt whuppin'.

http://www.naturalnews.com/026955_swine_flu_vaccines_flu_vaccines.html

http://www.naturalnews.com/026953_thimerosal_autism_mercury.html

[Dr. Shane]

That would be $4 billion gross revenues, not net. Big difference. One of the big reasons medicine and vaccines cost what they do is lawyers. They suck away a lot of profits from "Big Pharma".

[LifeHiscost]

That would be $4 billion gross revenues, not net. Big difference. One of the big reasons medicine and vaccines cost what they do is lawyers. They suck away a lot of profits from "Big Pharma".

You disagree then with this sentence from the article?

"That answer is roughly $4 billion in net revenues."

Regards!

[Dr. Shane]

Net revenues is what a company earns after it pays its taxes, payroll and expenses - including litigation. $25 x 160 million = $4 billion. That is gross revenue not net revenue.

[Stan]

lol we are a long ways from even close to breaking even...

[Dr. Shane]

I am not sure what you mean? I don't know what the costs associated with making vaccines are. I know the pharmaceutical industry makes a healthy profit. I have pharmaceutical stocks and they pay good dividends. I see that as a good thing.

Money-making industries are going to attract the best and brightest minds to them. If the pharmaceutical industry didn't produce much of a profit, it wouldn't attract the best and brightest minds. Consider being a public defender for example. Public defenders don't make a lot of money. Thus the poor people that cannot afford a lawyer and must use a public defender do not get the best and brightest lawyers. The rich people like OJ Simpson and Micheal Jackson get the best and brightest lawyers. If the pharmaceutical industry didn't make a lot of money, it wouldn't have the best and brightest to develop the miracle drugs that we all hope and pray for.

What I was pointing out above was simply the obvious. Not every cent of the $25 cost for the vaccine is pure profit for the pharmaceutical companies. I don't know if they are making 50% profit or 10% profit but I know they are not making 100%. There are real costs they have to cover.

[Amelia]

Quote:

The companies -- Novartis, GlaxoSmithKline, MedImmune, Australian drug maker CSL, and Sanofi-Pasteur -- have been hard at work developing and testing vaccines since the H1N1 surfaced in the US, Mexico, and Canada early this spring. Though drug companies don't tend to make production costs public, these five will likely make a pretty penny as swine flu hits in earnest this fall.

Rachael David, a spokesperson for CSL, Australia, said in an email to The Scientist that the company has contracts to supply 21 million doses of a swine flu vaccine to the Australian government and USD $180 million worth of bulk antigen to the US. "Analysts have predicted that [CSL's profits from sale of the vaccine and ingredients] will be between AUS $250 and $300 million [uSD $218 - $262 million]," David wrote.

Quote:

The US government recently asked MedImmune, a Maryland-based subsidiary of drug maker AstraZeneca, to supply an additional 29 million doses of its live attenuated nasal spray swine flu vaccine, bringing the company's total contract to 40 million doses and more than $450 million. Karen Lancaster, a MedImmune spokesperson, told The Scientist that the cost per dose for the company's H1N1 vaccine is "a little less" than the cost per dose of the company's seasonal flu vaccine

Quote:

Novartis scored a whopping $690 million order from the US government this summer.

Quote:

This June, HHS poured $35 million into another biotech, Connecticut-based Protein Sciences, to produce a recombinant swine flu vaccine using insect viruses.

Source: http://www.the-scientist.com/blog/display/55993/

[daquick]

Whether you get the flu vaccine or not is an individual decision. One should carefully research each vaccine and what it is composed of.

Two red flags, for me, about this swine flu vaccine are the use of thimerosal(Thimerosal is a mercury-containing organic compound--FDA) and squalene (Squalene is commercially extracted from fish oil, and in particular shark liver oil. Squalene used in pharmaceutical products and vaccines is purified from this source.--WHO)

For what it is worth this makes for an interesting read: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/vitalv...et-exposed.aspx

[Dr. Shane]

Again, the CDC does all the research and risk assessment. The decision to get or not get the swine flu comes down to a person deciding whether or not they trust the government enough to make a risk assessment. Which is risker? To get the vaccine or take one's chances with the virus? For me, having had Guillain Barre Syndrome, the CDC has assessed that it is risker for me to get the vaccine than not. The CDC would rather have me risk getting the swine flu than having Guillain Barre Syndrome reoccur.

[LifeHiscost]

I am still appalled that people will still say God will protect me when the recourses that God has provided for protection are shunned.

the world is jam packed with healthy living people who will get sick through no fault of their own.

"If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in His sight, and wilt give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee which I have brought upon the Egyptians; for I am the LORD that healeth thee."Exodus 15:26 21st Century KJV

I don't intend to be able to answer all the reasons why disaster happens to people, but I do know that when it happens to me, I don't have to reach back far into the recesses of my past to be able to come to the conclusion, if I'd made a different decision there, I'd likely not have had to go through this experience now.

Blessings!

[Amelia]

Quote:

"If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in His sight, and wilt give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee which I have brought upon the Egyptians; for I am the LORD that healeth thee."Exodus 15:26 21st Century KJV

This is God talking to Moses and the Israelites in the desert. The "diseases" are the plagues. God is saying , be good and be well. Disobey and get boils etc. Personally I see this as a one time comment from God for the duration of the wandering and has nothing to do with us today.