You are rejecting light...!

[Twilight]

Many times we will hear and even make the following declaration yourself:

"You are rejecting light".

But the problem the "complainant" misses when the charge of "rejecting light" is proclaimed is this:

A believer not fully led by the Spirit forms a mental or emotional attachment to a truth or idea they believe to be the truth.

This can be "accentuated" by a "supernatural" experience (high feelings of joy etc - courtesy of the enemy).

They then mistake this mental or emotional attachment to a doctrine as a "spiritual" revelation.

Not realising their belief is based in "self" and what "self" wants to believe, supported by a "supernatural revelation".

They then have a "truth" that is mixed with darkness.

---------------------------

True revelation is revealed by the Holy Spirit.

In a mans spirit.

True, there can be an "assent" to the truth emotionally or mentally.

But it is not really "truth" until it is impressed upon the heart and mind throuh a mans spirit by the Holy Spirit.

This is the correct way of receiving "truth".

But because Christians are generally ignorant about what their "spirit" is and how it works, they mistake a carnal understanding of truth for a spiritual understanding.

They will then parade this truth as "from God", when it is in reality a carnal understanding which is based in feeling or logic.

Sometimes there is a spiritual understanding of a truth, but it is mixed in with the carnal nature and the understanding is clouded.

It is only as a believer is led by the Spirit that truth can be impressed on the mind and heart.

True revelation is spiritual revelation.

Your thoughts?

Mark

[Guest]

Also when the devil sees that he can't get you to run off the road on one sie, he will go to the other extreme, and try to get you off of the road on the other side with fanaticism.

[Tom Wetmore]

...They then have a "truth" that is mixed with darkness....

...Sometimes there is a spiritual understanding of a truth, but it is mixed in with the carnal nature and the understanding is clouded....

Your thoughts?

Ths is the only thing that is essential to understand and the only thing that is completely and universally true in what you posted. It is true of every human on this planet. And if we would understand this essential truth we could set aside our arrogant temptation to proclaim the title of this thread.

[Twilight]

Also when the devil sees that he can't get you to run off the road on one sie, he will go to the other extreme, and try to get you off of the road on the other side with fanaticism.

Indeed.

We must guard against this constantly.

Mark :-)

[Twilight]

And if we would understand this essential truth we could set aside our arrogant temptation to proclaim the title of this thread.

Amen...

We must ask the Lord to search our hearts and show us if anything of "self" is attached to our view of "truth".

Mark

[Guest]

Also Mark, anytime someone tells me that I am rejecting the light, when it is obvious that I am only rejecting their idea, because it is not biblical, I have to ask myself: What else could they be decieved about? Because now, not only is their idea of light not biblical, but now it has taken on an air of arrogance as well.

[Twilight]

Also Mark, anytime someone tells me that I am rejecting the light, when it is obvious that I am only rejecting their idea, because it is not biblical, I have to ask myself: What else could they be decieved about? Because now, not only is their idea of light not biblical, but now it has taken on an air of arrogance as well.

Yes indeed it is a shame.

But the Jehovahs Witnesses have great light in some areas, but error in others.

It teaches us to be cautious and accept no mans teachings unless it is thoroughly checked against the bible.

As soon as we see or experience in ourselves an angry (holy anger of course):

"You are rejecting light..."

We should seek a connection with the Lord and ask Him to cleanse our hearts and minds.

[Musicman1228]

Many Christians sincerely believe that in order to come to the truth you must first see the light. It sounds reasonable, after all truth is so nebulous and indistinct. Your truth may not be my truth, but we are all heading in the same direction none-the-less. Popular Christan belief is that what we do does not matter, because we come to the light through the power of the Holy Spirit. As long as we have the light we don't need to know all the truth. Is this not correct?

Actually, no it is not correct. Here is what Jesus said.

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

Contrary to popular belief 'doing' the truth does matter. You will NEVER get close enough to the light to matter if you don't DO the truth first. Any other theology is a cheap imitation, and we should not be fooled by cheap imitations.

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.  Matt.24:4-5.

Here Jesus is not saying that you will be fooled by 'Christ imitators'; He knows NO ONE (Christian) will be fooled by someone who is saying that they are actually Jesus Christ in the flesh. Jesus is warning His own disciples to beware of those who come saying that they are OF or FROM Christ, and are acting on His behalf or by His direction. These people have a form of 'light' which says you don't need to DO truth to come to the light, you only need to know the source of truth, Jesus Christ, to be saved.

This is a warning we ALL need to heed.

[Guest]

What version of the Bible do you use MM? If you don't mind me asking. I like the way it reads.

[teresaq]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

...They then have a "truth" that is mixed with darkness....

...Sometimes there is a spiritual understanding of a truth, but it is mixed in with the carnal nature and the understanding is clouded....

Your thoughts?

Ths is the only thing that is essential to understand and the only thing that is completely and universally true in what you posted. It is true of every human on this planet. And if we would understand this essential truth we could set aside our arrogant temptation to proclaim the title of this thread.

i agree!!

in my younger, as well as spiritually less mature, years i was so positive that the way i understood the bible to say was the understanding. there was no way it could be disagreed with.

thankfully the older i got i found my understanding being corrected so many times, that i fully believe in the saying:

"the older i get the less i know". (not real sure about how much more spiritually mature i am, either. )

("there but for the grace of God go i", is another great one that should be resurrected)

[Musicman1228]

What version of the Bible do you use MM? If you don't mind me asking. I like the way it reads.

I have 7 or 8 versions, but the one I like the best and use the most is the English Standard Version (ESV). I also like the New American Standard Bible (NASB).

[Guest]

I just downloaded a ESV last night for my e-sword software. I like it pretty good.

[teresaq]

I just downloaded a ESV last night for my e-sword software. I like it pretty good.

e sword is great!!

check this out: http://sharpeningthesword.net/sharpening%20the%20sword%20e-sword%20files_005.htm

it only works on v9 tho.

someone here has also worked out a similar program who might like to share.

[Guest]

Wow thanks, I just happen to have V9. I didn't know there were EGW books for it. Thanks for the link.

[Guest]

I downloaded the EGW scripture commentary. It's neat. E-sword just got better.

If you don't have it already, I would recommend getting: Treasury of Scripture Knowledge for e-Sword 9.x It's great for cross reference.

http://e-sword.net/commentaries.html

(copied from website:)

Complete with over 500,000 Scripture references and parallel passages, this reference work contains the most exhaustive listing of biblical cross references available anywhere. For over a century this unique volume has been an essential tool

[Twilight]

Many Christians sincerely believe that in order to come to the truth you must first see the light. It sounds reasonable, after all truth is so nebulous and indistinct. Your truth may not be my truth, but we are all heading in the same direction none-the-less. Popular Christan belief is that what we do does not matter, because we come to the light through the power of the Holy Spirit. As long as we have the light we don't need to know all the truth. Is this not correct?

Actually, no it is not correct. Here is what Jesus said.

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

Contrary to popular belief 'doing' the truth does matter. You will NEVER get close enough to the light to matter if you don't DO the truth first. Any other theology is a cheap imitation, and we should not be fooled by cheap imitations.

And Jesus answered them, “See that no one leads you astray. For many will come in my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and they will lead many astray.  Matt.24:4-5.

Here Jesus is not saying that you will be fooled by 'Christ imitators'; He knows NO ONE (Christian) will be fooled by someone who is saying that they are actually Jesus Christ in the flesh. Jesus is warning His own disciples to beware of those who come saying that they are OF or FROM Christ, and are acting on His behalf or by His direction. These people have a form of 'light' which says you don't need to DO truth to come to the light, you only need to know the source of truth, Jesus Christ, to be saved.

This is a warning we ALL need to heed.

Problem is MM, you cannot "do the truth" until you have been regenerated.

I am perceiving that your are saying you have to "do the truth" to be regenerated.

That is backwards my friend.

Jesus said, "Ye must be born again".

That is spiritual rebirth.

Anything outside of that is legalism or liberalism.

Mark :-)

[pnattmbtc]

I think we should avoid being judgmental.

[Guest]

How was that being judgmental? He simply stated a fact.

[Musicman1228]

Most people read only one verse in John 3 and create a whole theology out of it (v.16). This can and does lead to erroneous conclusions. Jesus said that you must be born of the water and the Spirit to be able to see the Kingdom of Heaven. See in one thing, entering is another. Jesus goes on to explain how that works and end with:

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

I did not say that you have to be regenerate to 'do the truth', Jesus said that. You cannot come to the light unless you first do the truth. In order to 'do the truth' you must know what the truth is. Who or what is the 'light'? I believe it is what the Holy Spirit brings us into. These are not my words, these are the words of Jesus Christ. I think you can figure it out from here. This will be puzzling to anyone that believes that they are already 'born again'. You are NOT born again just because you say you are, any more than you become an apostle or disciple or follower of Jesus Christ just because you say you are. The proof is in the 'doing' of the truth. If you don't 'do' the truth then you cannot be born again, period.

[pnattmbtc]

How was that being judgmental? He simply stated a fact.

I was just stating a fact. If I were doing more than that, I would be being judgmental.

[Guest]

Most people read only one verse in John 3 and create a whole theology out of it (v.16). This can and does lead to erroneous conclusions. Jesus said that you must be born of the water and the Spirit to be able to see the Kingdom of Heaven. See in one thing, entering is another. Jesus goes on to explain how that works and end with:

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

I did not say that you have to be regenerate to 'do the truth', Jesus said that. You cannot come to the light unless you first do the truth. In order to 'do the truth' you must know what the truth is. Who or what is the 'light'? I believe it is what the Holy Spirit brings us into. These are not my words, these are the words of Jesus Christ. I think you can figure it out from here. This will be puzzling to anyone that believes that they are already 'born again'. You are NOT born again just because you say you are, any more than you become an apostle or disciple or follower of Jesus Christ just because you say you are. The proof is in the 'doing' of the truth. If you don't 'do' the truth then you cannot be born again, period.

You are 180 degrees off course MM. The best thing you could do at this point would be to stop moving, and ask God for directions. The text plainly says that if you are not born again FIRST, that you can't even see the KOH, much less enter it.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

So you're standing there waiting for something that you could have right now, and you don't even know it.

[Musicman1228]

Robert, did you not read to the end of the passage? Please explain John 3:19-21 in light of John 3:3,5. You missed my point entirely. Yes, absolutely you must be born again to enter the Kingdom, but how do you prove to God you have been born again? Does He just take your word for it? Or does He require proof? Read this passage again and let me know your answers.

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God. John 3:19-21.

[Guest]

Robert, did you not read to the end of the passage? Please explain John 3:19-21 in light of John 3:3,5. You missed my point entirely. Yes, absolutely you must be born again to enter the Kingdom, but how do you prove to God you have been born again? Does He just take your word for it? Or does He require proof? Read this passage again and let me know your answers.

First of all, who are you calling Robert? Have we been hitting the old hip flask this evening?

Second of all, God knows everything. To think he needs to take your word for anything is absurd. Others will know by your fruits, but he knows the innermost workings of your mind.

I bet he gets a kick out of you. (I'm sorry, that wasn't funny)

But you somehow have managed to miss my whole point. It's just a case of you needing to put the horse in front of the cart, so he can pull it. Instead of trying to get him to push it.

[Twilight]

Most people read only one verse in John 3 and create a whole theology out of it (v.16). This can and does lead to erroneous conclusions. Jesus said that you must be born of the water and the Spirit to be able to see the Kingdom of Heaven. See in one thing, entering is another. Jesus goes on to explain how that works and end with:

But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God.” John 3:21.

I did not say that you have to be regenerate to 'do the truth', Jesus said that. You cannot come to the light unless you first do the truth. In order to 'do the truth' you must know what the truth is. Who or what is the 'light'? I believe it is what the Holy Spirit brings us into. These are not my words, these are the words of Jesus Christ. I think you can figure it out from here. This will be puzzling to anyone that believes that they are already 'born again'. You are NOT born again just because you say you are, any more than you become an apostle or disciple or follower of Jesus Christ just because you say you are. The proof is in the 'doing' of the truth. If you don't 'do' the truth then you cannot be born again, period.

So are you saying that we have to "work" to receive the Holy Spirit MM?

Please clarify. :-)

[Twilight]

Robert, did you not read to the end of the passage? Please explain John 3:19-21 in light of John 3:3,5. You missed my point entirely. Yes, absolutely you must be born again to enter the Kingdom, but how do you prove to God you have been born again? Does He just take your word for it? Or does He require proof? Read this passage again and let me know your answers.

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God. John 3:19-21.

You accept it by Faith and God gives you it.

It is as simple as that.

Mark :-)