Destroyed by the brightness of His coming...

[skyblue888]

"And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming." 2 Thessalonians 2.8.

This Scripture has been usually understood to portray the picture of Christ descending the advent skies, while before Him precede great flowing sheets of devouring flame which reach out to consume whoever of the impenitent have somehow managed to survive the plagues.

Such an interpretation of this Scripture, obvious as it may appear, is out of harmony with the character of God and Christ. If fire emanating from Him kills the wicked, then there is a direct, destructive work associated with His presence and Person. Therefore, He would be an executioner after all. But He is not, nor ever will be.

When He came the first time to this earth He testified that He had not come to destroy men's lives but to save them. The purpose of His advent does not change with His second coming. Once again, His intention is to deliver His people from an earth which has been so reduced by the final disasters as to be incapable of supporting life any longer. Certainly, He would save every individual who has ever been born if this were possible, but tragically, so few are prepared to accept His saving grace. He does nothing to them. He has not come for them. They have taken themselves out of the circle of His responsibility and their fate is entirely a matter of their own appointment.

There are statements which explain this text and which harmonize with this principle.

"Then shall they that obey not the gospel be consumed with the spirit of His mouth, and be destroyed with the brightness of His coming. Like Israel of old, the wicked destroy themselves; they fall by their iniquity. By a life of sin, they have placed themselves so out of harmony with God, their natures have become so debased with evil, that the manifestation of His glory is to them a consuming fire." The Great Controversy, 37.

That this statement is a direct explanation of the verse under study is clear from the fact that firstly the text is quoted, and then comment is made upon it. Therein, it is affirmed that the wicked destroy themselves. It is not the work of God but their own. They have sown the seed and they must reap the harvest.

Most significant is the parallel drawn between the way in which Israel perished and the destruction in the last days. As the one perished, so will the other. This is to indicate that the Israelites were likewise destroyed with the brightness of His coming. This is true, for that is exactly how they did come to their end.

to be continued

[skyblue888]

It may be immediately objected that Jesus did not come with outshining glory at His first advent. Furthermore, He was far away in the distant heavens when the Jews met their fate, so there is no visible evidence of their having been consumed with the brightness of His glory. Such an interpretation depends on the understanding of what the brightness of His glory is and how humans are consumed by it. Defining that expression is the key to solving the problem.

The factor which above all others brought the Jews to their untimely end, was the manifestation of the brightness of God's character-glory in Christ. Before Christ came, the Jews were in a serious state of apostasy, but, even so, were not totally separated from God, for they had not taken the final steps in rebellion. But, as the light of Christ's glorious character shone on them, they were driven to desperate lengths of resistance until they were pushed to the extremes of apostasy.

God did not intend that such be the result of this revelation, but once they determined on rejection of Him, it became the only possible outworking of that decision. They were destroyed, and it was by the brightness of His coming.

The sequence then was as follows:

The Jews were in a state of apostasy. Christ shone on them the brightness of His coming, the glory of His character. The actual destruction was accomplished by the unleashed natural forces.

In the sacred writings, both of these forces are described.

There we can read of Christ's coming, of the Jews' reaction, and of the separation of the Spirit of God from them. Then we can read of the destructive work accomplished by the outrage of human passion no longer under divine restraint.

In exactly the same way, there is recorded the identical procedure which leads to the destruction of the wicked in the final overthrow of mankind. They will be in a state of deep apostasy. The brightness of His coming will be revealed to them in the loud cry. Their rejection of this influence will drive them to separate themselves from God's protection.

The actual destruction to befall them will be accomplished by the unleashing of the wild passions within them and by the unrestrained forces of nature.

Basically then, it is the brightness of His coming which destroys them but not in the sense that they are struck down by it. That is left to the unrestrained forces in man and nature, the destruction from which the brightness of His coming would have saved them if they had related to it correctly.

Therefore, in studying the final demise of the wicked, both these factors must be kept in mind. The student must understand just what is accomplished by each, ever keeping the distinctions sharp and clear.

to be continued

[Guest]

Be careful how you interpret Scripture. Read it with a heart opened to the entrance of God’s Word, and it will express Heaven’s light, giving understanding unto the simple. This does not mean the weak-minded but those who do not stretch themselves beyond their measure and ability in trying to be original and independent in reaching after knowledge above that which constitutes true knowledge. . . . {CTr 153.2}

She never says to use her writings to interpret scripture, and they are not to be placed above scripture.

[skyblue888]

The sacred writings do not fail to mention them. When the fall of the wicked is described in The Great Controversy, it shows that they are to be obliterated by the furious outburst of their own fierce passions and by the outpouring of the seven last plagues. There immediately follows the statement that they will be consumed by the spirit of His mouth and destroyed by the brightness of His coming. Here is exactly how it appears on page 657.

"In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall the wicked inhabitants of the earth,--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. 'And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried.'

At the coming of Christ the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth,—consumed with the spirit of His mouth, and destroyed by the brightness of His glory. Christ takes His people to the city of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants."

Placing these two statements in this order side by side, perfectly expresses the destiny of the unrepentant. The immediate and seemingly obvious means of their destruction will be the terrible onslaught of maddened man and nature. But the deeper, underlying cause is not to be overlooked. Prior to the coming of the physical calamities, divine love will have sent the revelation of Christ's character in the brightness of His soon coming. Their rejection of those saving provisions will place them where destruction is free to descend upon them.

Those who do not understand this but believe that the death of the wicked will be directly and physically accomplished by the flaming fire emanating from the person of Christ, would need to have the statement differently written. For them it should appear as follows:

"In the mad strife of their own fierce passions, and by the awful outpouring of God's unmingled wrath, fall "the larger proportion of the wicked inhabitants of the earth,--priests, rulers, and people, rich and poor, high and low. 'And the slain of the Lord shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried.'

"At the coming of Christ" the remainder of "the wicked are blotted from the face of the whole earth—consumed with the spirit of His mouth, and destroyed by the brightness of His glory. Christ takes His people to the city of God, and the earth is emptied of its inhabitants."

The second version provides for the theory that when Christ appears there will be such an outshining of flaming power that the wicked who manage to survive the seven last plagues and the bloody internecine warfare, will be consumed by it. If the statement was written in this way, those who believe that would have an incontrovertible proof for their belief.

But it is not written that way. Instead, we have the truth stated and then repeated in different words of just how the wicked will perish. They are parallel declarations, each saying the same thing in different words. To be slain by the brightness of His coming is to perish under the seven last plagues and the fierce battles they will fight.

From this reference it is evident that the death of those upon the earth at the second advent is not caused by searing fire emanating from Christ. The actual physical forces which crush out fragile life, will be the terrible scourges and the fighting between them.

Exactly as the Jews who perished by the physical instrument of the Roman armies, were destroyed by the brightness of His coming as already noted, so the plagues will come upon the wicked in the same way. The brightness of Christ's coming begins to shine long before He actually appears in the clouds of heaven. As the message of the loud cry goes forward, the brightness of that coming shines with increasing intensity, pressing upon the hearers throughout the length and breadth of the earth, to surrender their ways and accept the perfection of God's righteousness.

Very few will respond to this powerful, drawing love. The balance will resist it with all the determination they can muster. The more effectively the truth of God, which shines with the brightness of His coming, is offered to the people, the more rapidly and deeply will they enter into apostasy if they do not yield to it. This will separate them from God to the point where He will be forced to leave them entirely. Then will come upon them the full fury of the seven last plagues by which they will be destroyed. Thus they are destroyed by the spirit of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.

to be continued

[Guest]

We are not to set our stakes and then interpret everything to reach this set point. Here is where some of our great Reformers have failed, and this is the reason that many who today might be mighty champions for God and the truth are warring against the truth. . . . God designs we should be learners, first from the living oracles, and second from our associates. This is God’s order. {CTr 331.2}

[skyblue888]

The presentation of the gospel is the key factor in finishing the work. If the advent people had accepted and preached the gospel in its full power, the work would have been finished a hundred years ago. Much further back, it would likewise have ended if the apostolic church had lived true to all the light they had received. The only reason the earth has escaped destruction so long is because it has not been subjected to the spirit of His mouth and the brightness of His coming. When it finally is, those things will either save or destroy it.

A further evidence to support the fact that it is not the pulsing forth of fire from the Person of Christ which destroys the wicked, is the final confrontation around the city of God.

There the wicked come quite close to the presence of Christ Who is just as powerful then as when He returns the second time. But they are able to march against the city in which is the presence of God and of Christ. They are able to stand there right through the revelation of the mystery of Christ, and they are able to see all that God wants them to see without being consumed with physical fire from the presence of God and His Son.

Therefore, if the fire surrounding Christ does not consume them at the end of the thousand years, why should it do so at the beginning, unless Christ personally decided that it should? If He did, then of course He would become a direct destroyer which, for Him, is impossible.

sky

[Guest]

We should never let the impression prevail that only a privileged few have a knowledge of the Scriptures and that others must refer to these—{CTr 332.5}

[Guest]

Such an interpretation of this Scripture, obvious as it may appear, is out of harmony with the character of God and Christ. If fire emanating from Him kills the wicked, then there is a direct, destructive work associated with His presence and Person. Therefore, He would be an executioner after all. But He is not, nor ever will be.

What is the source of this nonsense? I know it's not the Bible or Ellen White.

[skyblue888]

We should never let the impression prevail that only a privileged few have a knowledge of the Scriptures and that others must refer to these—{CTr 332.5}

______________________________________

We are told that "The experience of the church in former ages have lessons of great value for our time." G.C.343.

Let us apply these words to the Jewish church in the days of Christ.

Christ was a Teacher among the people, was He not? He taught the people at the temple and in the synagogues. Generally speaking He and His few disciples were opposed by the Sanhedrin (General Conference) and by the local conference and by the leading men at the local church.

Did not the impression prevail that only a privileged few (Jesus and His disciples) had a knowledge of the Scriptures and that others were to refer to these? Absolutely.

This statement did not stop Jesus from declaring that the leaders of the Jews understood neither the Scriptures nor the power of God!

What if history is being repeted before our very eyes?

What think ye?

sky

[Guest]

What if history is being repeted before our very eyes?

What think ye?

sky

It actually is being repeated with our church leaders, but not over this idea that God never destroys.

[pnattmbtc]

A. T. Jones wrote something very similar to the above in a sermon called "The Consuming Fire."

Quote:

Do you not remember that the Word not only says that we

shall see him, but see him as he is ? that is, we shall see him as a

consuming fire,— and I am glad of it. Thank the Lord! Here is a

description of him when John saw him as he is,— saw him as we

shall see him,— and what of it? Just a few points: “His eyes were

as a flame of fire.” “His feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned

in a furnace; and “His countenance was as the sun shineth in his

strength.” His-raiment was “white as snow, so as no fuller on

earth can white them,” “as white as the light”— the whiteness of

piercing, consuming brightness. That is he. And that is he as he is

when he comes; and without holiness no man shall see him.

Without separation from sin, no man shall stand.

Quote:

And destruction comes to them, not because they had no chance, but because they

despised all the chances they had: not because they had no

opportunity to know God, but because they rejected every

opportunity that God ever gave them to find him out, and know

him when he revealed himself.

God is altogether clear; for Jesus said: “If any man hear my

words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge

the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and

receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him.” John 12:47,

48.

Now let us find out that “one.” It is not Jesus Christ: he

says it is not. It is not God; for the Lord Jesus said, “If any man

hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not.” That is not the

“one.” But there is “one” that judges him, and I think we can find

him out. Look again: “if any man hear my words.” That word is the

word of God. It is the word of life of God, because it is the word

of God. The word of life of God is eternal life, because eternal is

the life of God. Then there is the word of eternal life. That word

is spoken. All men hear it. “If any an hear my words, and believe

not;” and “he that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words,” —

that word being the word of life, when it comes to you, or to me,

or to that other man, eternal life comes to you, or to me, or to

that other man. In the “words of eternal life,” eternal life comes

to him to whom the word comes. And when he rejects the word,

he rejects eternal life. And in choosing to reject eternal life, he

chooses eternal death. It is his own choice to reject eternal life;

and in rejecting that, he chooses death. Then when that death

comes to him which he has chosen — who brought him to it? Who

counted him worthy of death? Who judged him? Who sentenced

him to death?— Only himself.

Quote:

“Our God is a consuming fire.” Bless the Lord!

“Who may abide the day of his coming? Who shall stand

when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner’s FIRE.” Good. Then

when I meet him now, in the consuming fire that he is, I meet him

in a fire that is refining, that purifies. “And he shall sit as a refiner

and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and

purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord

an offering in righteousness.” That is separation from sin; that is

purification from sin. And that sets us where we offer an offering

unto the Lord in righteousness: we become the servants of

righteousness unto holiness, that we may meet the Lord. So, then,

bless the Lord that he is a consuming fire,— that he is as a

refiner’s fire.

Look again at that expression in Revelation: “His eyes were

as a flame of fire.” In that day his eyes will rest upon each one of

us, and he will look clear through us. When his eyes are as a flame

of fire, and those eyes in that great day rest upon every one of

us, and look clear through us, what will that look do for every one

who is wrapped up, body and soul, in sin?— It will consume the sin

and the sinner with it; because he would not be separated from

the sin. And today, just now, those eyes are the same that they

will be in that day. Today his eyes are as a flame of fire; and “all

things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we

have to do.” Very good, then. As all things are naked and opened

unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do, whether we will

have to do with him or not, why not accept the fact, choose to

have it so, and on our part open up everything to the eyes of him

with whom we have to do? And having opened up the life thus to

him, to the flaming fire of the glory of his shining eyes, what will

that do?— Those eyes of living flame will look clear through us,

and will consume away all the sin, and all the dross; and will refine

us so that he shall see in us the image of himself.

It is written that we are to serve the Lord “as of sincerity.”

Sincere is genuine; it is true; it is as strained honey. Originally, it

is honey strained, and strained again, over and over, until, holding

up the honey to the light, it is found to be sine-cera,— “without

wax,” no trace of cera to be seen floating in it. That is what he

says you and I are to be as certainly as we are Christians. God

cleanses us in the blood of Christ, and holds us up in the light of

the Lord, and the world can see only the light. And so, “ye are the

light of the world.” Here, again, is the word of the Lord: “Search

me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts:

and see if there be any wicked way in me.” Ps. 139:23, 24. That

is the word given to us for today and for all time. Another word

goes right along with it: “0 Lord, thou hast searched me, and

known me.

Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising...and art

acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue,

but, lo, O Lord, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me

behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me.” Another

translation has it: “Thou has compassed me all around; and

holdest thine hand over me.” Verses 1-5. That is a fact. He has

compassed us all around, and his hand is over us. Whether we

accept it or not, is another matter; but that is the fact with every

man in all this wide world. That is how it is that all things an naked

and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Then when it is a fact that he has searched us, and known

us, and does search out and know us all the time, why not accept

it as a fact, and have the benefit of it? Why not present to him

the word, “Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and

know my thoughts”? What for?— “And see if there be any wicked

way in me.” 0, that sets me before his face; for his glorious eyes

of light to look upon me, and to shine through me, as the fire,

searching out if there be any wicked way in me! And having

searched it out, and being a consuming fire, he consumes it all

away, and leads me in the way everlasting.

Here's the link to the sermon:

http://tiny.cc/YE90F

A shortened version of these thoughts can be found in DA 107, 108.

[pnattmbtc]

It actually is being repeated with our church leaders, but not over this idea that God never destroys.

It's been pointed out several times that this characterization is incorrect. If you presented the idea as "God does not violently destroy," that would be agreed to.

The question is not "Does God destroy?," but "How does God destroy?" Does He do so according to the principles of force and violence, or by the principles of love and truth?

[Woody]

Quote:

Does He do so according to the principles of force and violence, or by the principles of love and truth?

That's a pretty one sided question. Let me see ... how should one answer it?

[pnattmbtc]

Believe it or not, there are those who have been arguing that it's the former.