I'm probably all wet....but

[Neil D]

I went to Sabbath School yesterday....and was very disturbed by the picture of God that I got....

The picture of God that was portrayed from Numbers was a God, who ordered his camp/people in a precise mannor, with Levites closed to the Tabornacle and the other tribes further out. On the outskirts of this encampment, were the mixed multitude, whose bitter/complaining remarks were heard thurout camp. God was protrayed as One who would destroy those who had an unreasonable complaint, as fire would sometimes consume an individual.

Reinforcing these pictures were the fact that the Isrealites were so degraded in thier understanding that God had to be strict/firm with them, and that these destructions were done in mercy as they would not survive outside the camp.

God is not human, and that His ways are not our ways. His judgement is just and regardless, we must trust Him.

My strenuous argument was that

1] God does not destroy people for just disagreements/complaints. That there is another key factor that usually warrants destruction of the individual.

2] an ordered camp would have broke and ran if there was a public destruction of an individual, given the degraded understanding. And since they did not flee for their lives, there was some agreed upon understanding/justice, when there was if a public destruction in this camp occurred.

3] God's ways may not be OUR ways, but they are justifibley comprehensible in some way to our understanding.

So there's the arguement...My questions are- Have I thought outside the box for so long that I am now just on the outside? Am I a heretic for thinking that God is a better person that I am?...or anyone else on the planet, past present and future?

....Or is my church [for several people put forth those arguements] a church with a petty view of God?

[Woody]

[Neil D]

So, what I am hearing from your non-confronting posts is that the church was correct, eh?

Come on, guys....a bit less obtuseness is going to be more appreciated..

[Woody]

Can't help it that I am a non-confrontationalist.

[Liz]

1] God does not destroy people for just disagreements/complaints. That there is another key factor that usually warrants destruction of the individual.

2] an ordered camp would have broke and ran if there was a public destruction of an individual, given the degraded understanding. And since they did not flee for their lives, there was some agreed upon understanding/justice, when there was if a public destruction in this camp occurred.

3] God's ways may not be OUR ways, but they are justifibley comprehensible in some way to our understanding.

So there's the arguement...My questions are- Have I thought outside the box for so long that I am now just on the outside? Am I a heretic for thinking that God is a better person that I am?...or anyone else on the planet, past present and future?

....Or is my church [for several people put forth those arguements] a church with a petty view of God?

I guess I am confused (I know, I know what is else is new-eh?), but why would it be a petty view of God to think that their were other key factors in place before a person was destroyed? I mean it can't be that hard to believe that we aren't told every little minute detail--right? Even in the New Testament is says that if all the acts of Jesus were written down there would be tons of books--or something to that effect. So why not with the Old Testament as well? Why would it be heretical to think that God is purely just---moreso than sinful humans?

As for your last statement/question, I think people in general have an odd view of God, not just in our church.

[Gerr]

This is how I understand the account. The people, mainly at the instigation of the rabble/mixed multitude, complained ABOUT God and were punished. Moses COMPLAINED too, but he complained TO God and was NOT punished. Is there a difference? Apparently so. When you complain ABOUT somebody, there is no resolution of the point of contention. You are just complaining. When you complain TO the person you have a problem with, there is hope for discussion and resolution, which Moses did and had.

[Woody]

Gerry ... I must be in good standing then. For I have been pointing my finger and yelling at God for years.

[Neil D]

This is how I understand the account. The people, mainly at the instigation of the rabble/mixed multitude, complained ABOUT God and were punished. Moses COMPLAINED too, but he complained TO God and was NOT punished. Is there a difference? Apparently so. When you complain ABOUT somebody, there is no resolution of the point of contention. You are just complaining. When you complain TO the person you have a problem with, there is hope for discussion and resolution, which Moses did and had.

Since when does complaining carry a death sentence, Gerry? Talk never carrys a death sentence, but talk with action does....Even Abraham bargained with God for a whole city with 10 righteous people against a city of over.... 100,000?

And complaining is such that it carrys a death sentence? Pretty unjust to me....Now, if there was complaining AND some getting into the face of someone, or some threatening gestures....yeah, I can see it escalating into more....