Members phkrause Posted November 7, 2009 Members Posted November 7, 2009 I have to agree with you Bonnie on this issue. The Army or military's thinking is always a little crazy sometimes, but if a person enlists he should keep to his or her contract (convenant so to speak). I know sometimes people have enlisted and after many years they become christians and decide that they can't do it anymore. They than need to take this up with the powers that be. Especially if they become SDA christian. I think personally there is more to this than meets the eye with this soldier. Things we will probably never know for along time. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 I have to agree with you Bonnie on this issue. The Army or military's thinking is always a little crazy sometimes, but if a person enlists he should keep to his or her contract (convenant so to speak). I know sometimes people have enlisted and after many years they become christians and decide that they can't do it anymore. They than need to take this up with the powers that be. Especially if they become SDA christian. I think personally there is more to this than meets the eye with this soldier. Things we will probably never know for along time. pk I hardly think this can be blamed on Obama.I did find Obama's remarks interesting in light of what he said in the past however. When the incident involved a friend of his (Gates) He immediately said he did not know the details but the police officer(white) had acted stupidly. In this said he didn't know the details on the shooter and we shouldn't rush to judgment. Was wondering why we did not hear.... "I don't know the details but the Muslim shooter acted stupidly." Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Your first post..... Places all blame on the stupid army for doing what is normally done. No, I didn't place *all* the blame on the Army. I placed a portion of the blame on the Army. And they deserve it. If I leave a $100 bill the dashboard of my car and someone breaks my car's window and steals the money, the thief is in the wrong. No one should steal my money regardless of where I leave it. It is my money and others shouldn't take it. However can anyone claim that I was not in part to blame for the money being stolen? In a similar way not only did the Army refuse to release a fundamental Muslim and allow him to pay back the money for his education, the we ready to deploy him to a war in a Muslim country. How can we possibly say the Army is without blood on their hands? Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Shane President Bush kept us safe after 9/11 and less than one year into Obama's term we are attacked by a militant, Muslim terrorist. Not sure how you can say that Shane. President Obama is in charge of the Armed Forces, FBI, Justice Department and Homeland Security. This guy was waving red flags all over the place. Just tell me where the buck stops and that is where the blame will fall. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Members phkrause Posted November 7, 2009 Members Posted November 7, 2009 Sure the buck stops there. So lets see, if he decided to have a security guard on every soldier that would work? I don't think so. This has nothing to do who's in office this has to do with the mental state of an individual. And this goes back years and years in the mitiltary. And no one's blamed a president or a military organization yet. So now we should. Pretty pathic I'd say. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Quote: No, I didn't place *all* the blame on the Army. I placed a portion of the blame on the Army. And they deserve it. If I leave a $100 bill the dashboard of my car and someone breaks my car's window and steals the money, the thief is in the wrong. No one should steal my money regardless of where I leave it. It is my money and others shouldn't take it. However can anyone claim that I was not in part to blame for the money being stolen? No,you are not to blame. The thief is to blame.On your property you should be free to do as you choose as long as you are not harming anyone else. You did not make the thief,he was already a thief at least at heart. Quote: In a similar way not only did the Army refuse to release a fundamental Muslim and allow him to pay back the money for his education, the we ready to deploy him to a war in a Muslim country. How can we possibly say the Army is without blood on their hands? This fundamental Muslim should never have joined,he should not have looked at the federal government for a free ride to his education.Might have been good as long as he was already a muslim to read the fine print and see if it would or could violate his religious liberty. What would be against his religious liberty as he would not be on the battlefield killing anyone? Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 It is no more pathetic than blaming Bush for Abu Grahb. It doesn't take a security guard on every soldier to prevent this type of thing. The guy was asking to get out. The guy told everyone he was against the wars. The guy was a fundamentalist Muslim. The guy said that suicide bombers were heros like soldiers that fall on a grenade to protect other troops. This guy was waving warning flags all over the place. Someone just needed to pay attention. And what did they do? They gave him orders to deploy to Afghanistan! It is like they had a bomb in their presence and instead of getting rid of it they lit the fuse. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Sure the buck stops there. So lets see, if he decided to have a security guard on every soldier that would work? I don't think so. This has nothing to do who's in office this has to do with the mental state of an individual. And this goes back years and years in the mitiltary. And no one's blamed a president or a military organization yet. So now we should. Pretty pathic I'd say. pk We are living in a country where those that commit crimes are the true victims. I truly dislike Obama as president but he cannot be blamed for this. Especially the last few years think back on what you read. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 This fundamental Muslim should never have joined,he should not have looked at the federal government for a free ride to his education. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Quote: Since he volunteered to pay the Army back for his education we can put the "free ride" strawman in the closet. No,you are still using it. If I give me word that if you do this I will do that,that is what you do. Deciding after the fact doesn't work well. I would guess he didn't have the funds at the time and thought the government was a good sugar daddy. He should have put himself thru school and then lived his life as he saw fit within the law. Then he would not have needed to shoot 30 some people to be released from any contract Quote: The Seventh-day Adventist church has taken the military to court and established precedent that an individual does not give up his or her religious liberty simply by joining the military. I have not heard that,would have to look it up. Still does not release this man from taking care of his commitments. Whether a SDA would have been excused from going to Afghanistan I don't know. It does not matter. What does matter is the contract he signed as a muslim knowing what the possibilities would be Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 An Adventist would have other issues - such as Sabbath observance. The military could have accommodated his religion but chose not to. And look at what happened. Quote: I would guess he didn't have the funds at the time and thought the government was a good sugar daddy. That is highly unlikely and we have no reason to assume that. If he had the brains to get accepted he would have qualified for grants or student loans if he didn't have the money. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Quote: An Adventist would have other issues - such as Sabbath observance. The military could have accommodated his religion but chose not to. And look at what happened. If he was not interested in whether the military could or would accommodate his religion why should anyone else be. This was something he needed to personally decide before signing the contract.He didn't. I doubt whether he would be on the battlefield.Did his religion prevent him from offering or giving his services to men that might need him Quote: That is highly unlikely and we have no reason to assume that. If he had the brains to get accepted he would have qualified for grants or student loans if he didn't have the money. There is every reason to assume that. If he wanted the work and struggle of providing for his own education,he should have done so. Grants and loans only go so far in the story. My boys had grants and loans and it was a hard go for them to furnish the rest of what was needed. It took strong motivation and long hours. As long as you say he had the brains to get accepted,he had the brains to figure out there might be a conflict Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Moderators John317 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Moderators Posted November 7, 2009 As for the muslim issue, there are many muslims in the army and other parts of the us military. And many of them are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. The U.S. has had a military presence in the middle east way before 2001. Marines were getting bombed while they slept in the barracks in Saudi Arabia as far back as the Reagan administration. The point I am making is the shooter at fort hood should of known of the possibility of being deloyed to islamic countries when he first became a soldier. I could see that possibility 25 years ago. This is true. When a person goes into the military, they have to realize that they could be sent to war and be killed. That goes with the territory. I agree with Bill O'Reilly that Major Hasan is either a crazy man or a terrorist. The evidence is increasingly looking more and more like he is the latter. I agree with Shane to the extent that the army should have realized that Hasan shouldn't be in the military. There were lots of signs. Despite the mistakes made, however, the Major is accountable for his actions. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted November 7, 2009 Members Posted November 7, 2009 Was trying to find out how long he has been in the military? Couldn't find anything on that. Problem I see is that with all the muslims in the military, what do you do? You can't just kick them out, because than you have racial profilely. So you really have a catch 22 on your hands. Because as I've mentioned on another thread, there is no way to know what a person is going to do until he does it. Hindsite is always 20/20. You hear all these people saying "Oh I knew he was going to do that", I find that a bit to self serving. We don't know is what they should be saying. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators John317 Posted November 7, 2009 Author Moderators Posted November 7, 2009 Was trying to find out how long he has been in the military? Couldn't find anything on that. Information coming from the military is that the Major was in the ROTC program at Virginia Tech. I can't vouch for the accuracy of the report but I am seeing that he was in the military since 1995. I'll recheck to make sure that's correct. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators Bravus Posted November 7, 2009 Moderators Posted November 7, 2009 How many mass shootings have been by Christians? How often has their religion come up as an explanation? Why are people not focusing on the individual, rather than the religion? Quote Truth is important
Members phkrause Posted November 7, 2009 Members Posted November 7, 2009 Also a good point Bravus. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 How many mass shootings have been by Christians? How often has their religion come up as an explanation? Why are people not focusing on the individual, rather than the religion? Probably because his religion may have been a factor.He seems to have made it one prior to cowardly shooting unsuspecting people. That and his shouting of "Allahu Akbar"! might have led a few to remember 9/11 and the use of that phrase as well as when the brave number held a helpless man down and sawed his head off. Shouting Allahu Akbar! Just as Waco was made out to be because of SDA. I would think anyone going around killing and wounding the number he did would take the definition of christian off the score card Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
nuff sed Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Good grief!...He was a psychiatrist. How may psychiatrists have you heard of being on the front lines shooting at Muslims? Quote
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Good grief!...He was a psychiatrist. How may psychiatrists have you heard of being on the front lines shooting at Muslims? I think I have said repeatedly that it is unlikely that he would be on the battlefield or carrying arms Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 How many mass shootings have been by Christians? How often has their religion come up as an explanation? Why are people not focusing on the individual, rather than the religion? If we go back to the Dark Ages or to colonial America we will find Christians killing others for religious reasons. I think the Adventist church is one of the few churches that talks about the crimes of those times. There have not been Christians killing in the name of religion in the US for many years. Some of that certainly took place during the civil rights struggle but nothing I can think of recently. While Apostate Christianity once was an evil force that needed to be dealt with, at least in the US, it is not lethal today. Fundamental Islam is every bit as deadly today as Apostate Christianity was in the past. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 Originally Posted By: Bravus How many mass shootings have been by Christians? How often has their religion come up as an explanation? Why are people not focusing on the individual, rather than the religion? If we go back to the Dark Ages or to colonial America we will find Christians killing others for religious reasons. I think the Adventist church is one of the few churches that talks about the crimes of those times. There have not been Christians killing in the name of religion in the US for many years. Some of that certainly took place during the civil rights struggle but nothing I can think of recently. While Apostate Christianity once was an evil force that needed to be dealt with, at least in the US, it is not lethal today. Fundamental Islam is every bit as deadly today as Apostate Christianity was in the past. If they kill because of their religion it would be mentioned more than once. If this were a catholic that killed because of the pope you would be hearing about it. The muslim "religion" seems to have a protective veneer around it Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted November 7, 2009 Members Posted November 7, 2009 I agree Bonnie, he was probably going to be sent over there to do what he was trained to do. Give aid to those that needed a psychiatrist. Just like medic is needed in the field for the injured, a Doctor for the OR, infintry soldiers for fighting, etc. pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Dr. Shane Posted November 7, 2009 Posted November 7, 2009 One has to try and understand what his religious beliefs were to him. In his mind, America was at war is Muslims. He was treating soldiers that were traumatized by killing Muslims. An enlisted soldier must serve his or her entire enlistment until the end when they are discharged or re-enlist. An officer is commissioned and serves until they resign their commission. They can resign their commission at the end of their obligation or earlier if accepted by their higher command. This guy tried to resign his commission due to his religious beliefs and agreed to pay for his education. They not only refused to accept his resignation, they re-assigned him to a war zone in a Muslim nation. Like I said earlier, the guy was a ticking time bomb and instead of getting rid of him, the Army set him off. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
Moderators Bravus Posted November 8, 2009 Moderators Posted November 8, 2009 My point was that there is no evidence at all that this guy killed for his religion. None. It's all assumption and supposition. Quote Truth is important
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