Comply With Pelosi care-Or Go To Jail

[bonnie]

http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/06/committee-confirms-comply-with-pelosi-care-or-go-to-jail/

Committee Confirms: Comply With Pelosi-Care Or Go To Jail

by Publius

From the House Ways and Means Republicans:

1-jail-cell

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

n response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

- – - – - – - – - -

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

- – - – - – - – - -

“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

“The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.

[Dr. Shane]

The mandate needs to be for companies, not for individuals.

[Ted Oplinger]

Such a mandate would need to phrased and couched in terms of business economic incentives, not in the high-handed manner of taking individuals and company owners to jail.

Sounds like they got wind of the rumor thousands would rather pay fines and taxes rather than opt for the health-care package. In taking people into jail, they get to automatically enroll them into the governemtn plan, as jail/prison inmates get health care at tax-payer expense...

[Dr. Shane]

A mandate for employers to provide health insurance for their employees could be done just like the mandate to provide workerman's compensation is.

[bonnie]

A mandate for employers to provide health insurance for their employees could be done just like the mandate to provide workerman's compensation is.

The federal government has no business butting into and taking control of a contractual agreement between employer and employee.

They need safe working condition to protect others from harm.Then butt out

To mandate health care is NOT THEIR BUSINESS.

Any business with a average amount of sense will be dumping private insurance as fast as they can if this goes thru.

Then you can mandate till the cows come home and there will be no one to mandate to

[Dr. Shane]

Perhaps business should just pay their employees cash and everyone can get a 1099 at the end of the year and pay their own taxes and everything.

[bonnie]

Perhaps business should just pay their employees cash and everyone can get a 1099 at the end of the year and pay their own taxes and everything.

You don't pay them at the end of the year. Most people have the brains to pay quarterly.

Or you file and pay a penalty on April 15th

If a employee receives the 20.00 instead of the 12.00, a fair market wage,let them pay their own.

But no,no one should pay cash as the employer needs a paper trail that in fact the party was paid

[Dr. Shane]

Self-employed people pay taxes quarterly. I was making reference to the employee. My reference was to a circumstance that doesn't exist. Employees receive W2s not 1099s (except for vehicle allowances and such). However we want to make employees pay their own Social Security, why not pay their own taxes too?

[bonnie]

Self-employed people pay taxes quarterly. I was making reference to the employee. My reference was to a circumstance that doesn't exist. Employees receive W2s not 1099s (except for vehicle allowances and such). However we want to make employees pay their own Social Security, why not pay their own taxes too?

I know how frequently we had to pay taxes. Did it for a number of years. I also know what employee's receive for taxes.

I am fine with the grownups paying their own taxes right along with their own Social Security.

Many of us have done so or are doing so.

[Ted Oplinger]

Self-employed people pay taxes quarterly. I was making reference to the employee. My reference was to a circumstance that doesn't exist. Employees receive W2s not 1099s (except for vehicle allowances and such). However we want to make employees pay their own Social Security, why not pay their own taxes too?

Actually, Shane, that is a great idea.

End all the withholding for taxes, Social Security, and Medicare. End all the taxes and fees hidden at the gas pump, the electric bill, etc.

Allow the American consumer to have all that money back...but at the beginning of every month, they must cut a tax check to every entity demanding their tax money.

The result would be a tax revolt like this country has never seen before, as they would be witnessing and signing that check every single month.

The reason government has grown so big and so intrusive, is because it can nibble away at your check before you ever see the money. Most Americans believe April 15th is the final day to file for getting your check from the gov, not to reclaim a fraction of what was rightfully your own.

So I say let them pay their taxes monthly. The Statist would be out of power so quick it would snap their collective necks.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Actually, Shane, that is a great idea.

End all the withholding for taxes, Social Security, and Medicare. End all the taxes and fees hidden at the gas pump, the electric bill, etc.

Allow the American consumer to have all that money back...but at the beginning of every month, they must cut a tax check to every entity demanding their tax money.

The result would be a tax revolt like this country has never seen before, as they would be witnessing and signing that check every single month.

The reason government has grown so big and so intrusive, is because it can nibble away at your check before you ever see the money. Most Americans believe April 15th is the final day to file for getting your check from the gov, not to reclaim a fraction of what was rightfully your own.

So I say let them pay their taxes monthly. The Statist would be out of power so quick it would snap their collective necks.

That is so dead on.

[Dr. Shane]

Actually, the result would be that most people wouldn't pay taxes.

[bonnie]

Actually, the result would be that most people wouldn't pay taxes.

No,the government(IRS) would do the same to the individual as to the employer that has not withheld. I know several that have had that experience. Didn't take long of not paying SS and with holding and the IRS levied their bank account and for the balance garnished their wages.

They soon learned what the word Comply meant

[Dr. Shane]

Wages couldn't be garnished if all the employers were paying all the employees in cash. Employees without bank accounts wouldn't have anything for the IRS to go after.

The fact of the matter is that the system isn't broken. It works very good. A government mandate for employers to provide health insurance for employees would resolve our health care crisis and keep it in the private sector.

[bonnie]

Wages couldn't be garnished if all the employers were paying all the employees in cash. Employees without bank accounts wouldn't have anything for the IRS to go after.

The fact of the matter is that the system isn't broken. It works very good. A government mandate for employers to provide health insurance for employees would resolve our health care crisis and keep it in the private sector.

This is about paying taxes,not avoiding them by dishonest means.

Employer's are not going to pay in cash without a paper trail and you know it,so let's quit with the strawman.

You are again wrong when you say what the IRS won't do. Two characters in our area,less than honest in their taxes were paid in cash from various employer's. Stopped filing and never paid a dime. The IRS didn't take long after it was brought to their attention to rectify that situation.

From previous tax filings and based on a average of what these men should have had as a income their taxes were filed for them and pay they did, fines equaling almost the same as taxes. Jail was not a appealing choice. They files faithfully and yearly after that. They have been converted to believers in paying their taxes

No a federal mandate would not solve the so called health care

crisis. Are you claiming the few in numbers compared to the ones that have insurance constitute a crisis?

In the number that are uninsured there are illegal aliens,those that qualify for medicaid and don't sign up,some that choose not to have insurance and those that are without for a short time between jobs.

The chronically uninsured represent no more than 15-20% depending on whose numbers you use.

Many of those not working so employer coverage is a moot point.

I agree the system is not broken but you can bet your life the federal government will break it and then claim to be the saviour and fixit it

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Employer's are not going to pay in cash without a paper trail and you know it,so let's quit with the strawman.

Using a check is the same as cash. An employee can take a check to the employer's bank and get cash. The point in this hypothetical circumstance is that the employer is paying the employee without withholding anything for taxes, Social Security, unemployment, worker's compensation, etc. They are effectively paying their employees cash.

That situation would not allow the government a means to collect taxes from those unwilling to pay. The government could throw people like that in jail but that costs the government money. It doesn't get the government money.

The system we have now is good. Mandating employers to provide health insurance would be better.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Using a check is the same as cash. An employee can take a check to the employer's bank and get cash. The point in this hypothetical circumstance is that the employer is paying the employee without withholding anything for taxes, Social Security, unemployment, worker's compensation, etc. They are effectively paying their employees cash.

Not true. Cash leaves no paper trail. The unlikely hypothetical

is not going to happen with any established business. Unless of course that business is all paid in cash,which is not going to happen. No employer in his right mind would go without a paper trail.

Let the employer pay if you are not disciplined enough to pay your own taxes. But why make him pay a portion of your SS or unemployment benefits so you have a cushion out of his pocket?

Be a responsible adult being paid a fair wage and take care of your own future.

Quote:

That situation would not allow the government a means to collect taxes from those unwilling to pay. The government could throw people like that in jail but that costs the government money. It doesn't get the government money.

The system we have now is good. Mandating employers to provide health insurance would be better.

If you have ever been thru a Total Compliance Audit you would not make statements such as this.

Pure horse radish. First some of these people would need to go to work and for some that just isn't going to happen. The low numbers without would not to make a significent difference.

[Dr. Shane]

In many developing nations employers pay in cash. Some even pay in cash daily. Some will bring out a strong box with an armed guard to pay at the end of the day. Others issues vouchers to their employees so the employees can take the vouchers to the bank and receive their cash. That is what my company does in our African operations. The only paper trail is the employee signing for his cash.

These governments collect taxes by using consumption taxes at retail establishments. Retail goods in these countries are very expensive as a result. I much prefer the American system. Our system isn't broken. Mandating employer-provided health care would make it better.

[bonnie]

In many developing nations employers pay in cash. Some even pay in cash daily. Some will bring out a strong box with an armed guard to pay at the end of the day. Others issues vouchers to their employees so the employees can take the vouchers to the bank and receive their cash. That is what my company does in our African operations. The only paper trail is the employee signing for his cash.

These governments collect taxes by using consumption taxes at retail establishments. Retail goods in these countries are very expensive as a result. I much prefer the American system. Our system isn't broken. Mandating employer-provided health care would make it better.

While we might be on the road to becoming a third world country

that has nothing to do with paying taxes in the US.

You are so bent on this... Mandating employer-provided health care would make it better.

Tell me how mandating the few that need medical insurance and can't for some reason get it will make it all better.

What do you think the cost will be? Once the federal government gets it's foot in the door forget your lofty ideas of better.

Maybe the first order of business is stopping the fraud in medicare they claim is happening. Maybe the second would be how to take care of those few that cannot afford or get insurance asistance

Maybe take out 99% of the pure bull in the "cost saving health care bill"

[Dr. Shane]

One of the big reasons health-care insurance is so costly now is because there are many without insurance. Hospitals and care takers have to charge more in order to make up for those that cannot pay. Once everyone is covered, the costs will become more manageable.

[bonnie]

One of the big reasons health-care insurance is so costly now is because there are many without insurance. Hospitals and care takers have to charge more in order to make up for those that cannot pay. Once everyone is covered, the costs will become more manageable.

Are you claiming that 15-20% chronically uninsured is what has made health care as expensive as it is?

If we can pay 500 billion in fraud to medicare we can certainly take care of this small number.

The federal government has no business in my health care as long as I am paying premiums.NONE

They have no business mandating my health care

[bonnie]

These people could not efficiently handle the small potato's program of the cash for clunkers.

Now the stories are beginning to come out that fuel efficiency was not the big motivating factor,except in the minds of the high priest Al Gore and all like minded.

Many were traded for same mileage or less.

The first time home owners 8,000.00 check has also shown just how stupid these people are or how anxious to buy votes and push their agenda.

There was a surprised little four year old that qualified. Many others collecting the money and forgetting they were to be buying a house.

The "experts" doubt that much of this money will actually be recouped.

Now the offer is being extended to see how many more can be bought.

You don't even have to be a first time home owner to qualify for 6500.00 Just have not purchased a new home in a certain number of years. Just a little sugar coating,this money is being given to those wanting up to a 800,000.00 home.

The bucket of brains handling these fiasco's do not need their mitts in my health care