Woody Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Will the families have an execution party tonight? Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
bonnie Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Will the families have an execution party tonight? Hope not. But I am sure it will be a sense of relief to have this behind them. No matter what their family members are still dead Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Dr. Shane Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Until the families can forgive, they will find no relief. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Until the families can forgive, they will find no relief. I am sure some have.Those that haven't need to reach that themselves without someone reminding them day in and day out they need to fogive Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
bonnie Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 BONNIE YES I am sure some have forgiven dgrimm60 To many times this comes across of knowing if someone has or tell them when the time is. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
GreatLakesGramma Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Forgiveness doesn't always bring relief. Debbie Morris, the victim of one of the men the "Dead Man Walking" was based on, whose testimony brought about his conviction, forgave him. But she still could not live in peace until he was dead, because he had told her in court that he was going to get out of prison and come after her, and when he found her he would cut her in such tiny pieces, her parents wouldn't be able to identify her. He was escaped from jail when he kidnapped and raped her, and tortured her boyfriend and left him for dead, and there was never any evidence that he repented of his crimes or changed his mind. Quote Catherine God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever. Psalm 73:26. "To be a Christian means to forgive the inexcusable, because God has forgiven the inexcusable in you." -- C. S. Lewis
bonnie Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Forgiveness doesn't always bring relief. Debbie Morris, the victim of one of the men the "Dead Man Walking" was based on, whose testimony brought about his conviction, forgave him. But she still could not live in peace until he was dead, because he had told her in court that he was going to get out of prison and come after her, and when he found her he would cut her in such tiny pieces, her parents wouldn't be able to identify her. He was escaped from jail when he kidnapped and raped her, and tortured her boyfriend and left him for dead, and there was never any evidence that he repented of his crimes or changed his mind. Most think it is the magic bullet. It will erase all and life will be happier than ever. It usually begins with the pious preaching forgiveness before the victim has even processed what has happened to them. Most of the time that approach does far more damage than the initial abuse. It has to be a really hard time for the families of the victims. Wonder how many of the press will be sticking a mic in their face and want to know how they feel. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Doug Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Can someone be forgiven but still suffer punishment, even if it is death? Quote
there buster Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Quote: Can someone be forgiven but still suffer punishment, even if it is death? Happens to every Christian who dies. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
Dr. Shane Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 I saw Debbie Morris on "The Evidence" and she said that his execution did not bring her peace until she was able to forgive him. In fact, she said she thought she would have peace after his execution but did not until she forgave him. Quote Pastoral Family Counselor... Find me at www.PostumCafe.com Author of Peculiar Christianity
bonnie Posted November 10, 2009 Posted November 10, 2009 Can someone be forgiven but still suffer punishment, even if it is death? Forgiveness does not always do away with consequences. I can't think of the name of the young woman that was executed in Texas some years ago.I believe she had sincerely sought forgiveness while understanding that was not going to get her off death row. Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
there buster Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 forgiveness is one thing, pardon another. Rebuilding trust is yet a third. Quote “the slovenliness of our language makes it easier to have foolish thoughts.” George Orwell
bonnie Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 forgiveness is one thing, pardon another. Rebuilding trust is yet a third. I know.For some reason this woman really got to me and I was hoping and praying to the end. She committed some pretty horrible acts in killing the people she did. She accepted that she would die Quote Everything you do is based on the choices you make. It's not your parents, your past relationships, your job, the economy, the weather, an argument, or your age that is to blame. You and only you are responsible for every decision and choice you make, period ... ... Wish more people would realize this. Quotes by Susan Gottesman
Members phkrause Posted November 11, 2009 Members Posted November 11, 2009 So was he killed or murder? pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Members phkrause Posted November 11, 2009 Members Posted November 11, 2009 Thanks for clearly that up for me guys! pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Moderators John317 Posted November 11, 2009 Moderators Posted November 11, 2009 Can someone be forgiven but still suffer punishment, even if it is death? Yes. The Bible does not instruct governments to forgive criminals. We as individual believers should forgive people who do harm to us, but that doesn't mean they should not receive the punishment for the crimes they commit. They don't only harm individuals but their crimes are committed against the whole of society and against the government. Therefore the government has a responsibility to prosecute and punish crime, even if individuals forgive the criminal. Even when God forgives us for our sins, He doesn't prevent us from suffering their consequences. He forgave Adam but Adam died. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 11, 2009 Moderators Posted November 11, 2009 So was he killed or murder? pk Murder is the unlawful taking of a life, without due process. For instance, if a soldier takes a human life in a time of war and in the process of doing his lawful work, he is not "murdering" and he's not prosecuted for a crime. In that case, he is certainly killing but not murdering. The Bible supports that distinction. God ordered people to kill but not to murder. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Members phkrause Posted November 11, 2009 Members Posted November 11, 2009 Oh I agree John, just was curious what others thought. My other question than would be "do we have the right to take a life?" I know that in the OT God said an eye for an eye, but in the NT Jesus said to love your enemy, I wonder how that plays into what we do today. Do we execute like Richard suggested or do we throw them in jail for life and give them the oppurtunity for the HS to work on there souls. Obviously people need to pay for there crimes, and I think that God agrees with the punishment that was dished out or maybe not. Any thoughts? pk Quote phkrause When the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice; But when a wicked man rules, the people groan. Proverbs 29;2
Joanne Posted November 11, 2009 Posted November 11, 2009 I was afraid during the times of the shootings by the snipers. I live in Richmond, VA now but was closer to Ashland and Northern Va at the time of the shootings. I also frequented the Michaels craft stores, which he had shot someone in front of one. I know the terror we lived, although not the pain of losing my loved ones life or being shot. I am not sure what I feel he deserves and they said he showed no remorse. The first lawyer he had was a friend of mine. Some say he is mentally disturbed.....I am app to believe that someone who can do these things has mental problems...certainly not the right frame of mind to just start killing people. Anyway, now it's really irrelevant, as said He is dead, due to electrocution a few hours ago. But he was someone's son, a fathers, and maybe a brother. He is and was a child of God! My family and I came together today about 6 pm and prayed that before he took his last breath, God would give him the right mind to ask to be forgiven and prayed for his family and the families of the victims. I am not really an advocate of the death sentence, but God does say an eye for an eye..but he also says Vengeance is mine! We are also commanded not to kill....so to be on the safe side I would have no part in any way of taking someone's life. But he should never have been allowed to be set free. I do realize if I was in the shoes of the victims family...I might feel differently. May God bless and have mercy on all us! Quote
Woody Posted November 11, 2009 Author Posted November 11, 2009 Thanks for your thoughts Joanne. I appreciated them. Quote May we be one so that the world may be won. Christian from the cradle to the grave I believe in Hematology.
Moderators John317 Posted November 11, 2009 Moderators Posted November 11, 2009 Good questions. I think a lot depends on circumstances. For instance, when there's a lot of violence and disrespect for the law, sometimes it is necessary to take action in a way that you might not want to otherwise. When there's martial law due to total chaos, something has to be done to restore order, including the threat to shoot looters or thieves and other criminals. That seems to be what God was faced with when he brought the slaves out of Egypt. Those people were used to force and seemed to respect only brutality. God couldn't just reason with them. Sometimes God has the same problem with us. God meets us where we are and does what He knows He must do in order to get our attention and see Him for the loving God He is. In the past that has included some very drastic measures. Governments frequently have to do the same. It's a dangerous world and many people like it that way. Muhammed was evidently one of those who did. Now he is gone but there will be many others taking his place. Seems to be a never-ending situation, and it's not getting better. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted November 11, 2009 Moderators Posted November 11, 2009 I am not really an advocate of the death sentence, but God does say an eye for an eye..but he also says Vengeance is mine! We are also commanded not to kill... But is the command not to kill intended for governments? See Romans 13: 1-7. Is the command not to kill the same as the command not to murder? How about God's command in Genesis 9: 6 as well as Lev. 24: 17? The latter verse is not part of the ceremonial law, and the other verse quotes God's command which He declared before ever the existence of a Jew: "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed; for in the image of God He made man." Of course these verses are to be fulfilled by due process of law and not by individuals. But do you believe anything in the NT does away with these teachings? Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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