Tombstone or new school?

[Stan]

In 20 years will your church need a tombstone or a new elementary school? (BASED on the past 10 years)

[John317]

Ours already sold the school and bought a big tombstone.

Something must be done fast or the local church will be closed in the next 5 or 6 years. The conference almost closed it before but then decided to consolidate two Spanish-speaking congregations into one. My daughter and one other little girl were the only ones in their Sabbath school class most of the last 15 years. It's certainly different from when I was a kid, when our Sabbath school classes usually had over a hundred kids.

[Neil D]

In 20 years will your church need a tombstone or a new elementary school? (BASED on the past 10 years)

Hmmmmmmmm......IOWs, is your church relevant or not....? Does the church members [including myself] have the audacity to Hope, to be open, to care more than to be rigid? Can I entertain and accept a different color of sanctuary carpet than the one presently there? Can I buy into new ideas that may run counter to my own? Is being "right though the heavens fall" of more importance than moving the standards of Adventism? Is the following of EGW counsel of more import than current research that may look to run counter to her counsel?

Hmmmmmmmmm.........Nah, get a tombstone...!

[GreatLakesGramma]

Our church already has an elementary school.

[Dottie]

Our church is growing in a general area that is growing. We have started building a new church complex that is supposed to be finishedby Christmas, 2010.

[Kevin H]

We are a special target of Satan. Some of the things that we need to work on include:

1. To be more open minded in debates; there was a time where we could have heated debates, and people would be quite clear about what they are critical of the other person for. We were a church with a few pillers then free to study and discuss. Today we have different sub groups all claiming to be THE correct form of Adventism and lyeing about the others to make them look as bad as possible, with too many members living in fear of being deceived. We use to be a group who was willing to push the enevelope, having a conservertive and liberal publishing house. When the conservatives wanted to close the liberal Mrs. White said that we need both, the church thus kept the letter of the counsel by keeping both publishing houses open but destroyed the spirit of the counsel by making the workers clones of each other. But it would not be so bad if we were at least honest in our criticizisms (and as I pointed out in previous posts, some people have been accepting the lie and incorporating it in their vision of the idea)

2. Too much of a dependence on the institution for salvation. We started out as a movement but in the 20th century we've become institutionalized. (and I work at a psychiatric institution and think it's a very good term)

3. Our schools are becoming unaffordable. In the late 70s early 80s I was able to take out student loans for everything, books, room, board, tuitution and the 6 years of college and graduate school was under 18,000 and pay it up in 3 years. In the 90s I just took part time nursing classes, loans for tuition only and did not need all the general ed classes since I had previous degrees and my loans was just over $50,000 with a 10 year pay off plan of $975.00 a month and I started out getting paid about 900 every 2 weeks if I worked 40 hours at my full time job and 16 hours at part time. I thought nursing would support me as I got a PhD. and help me to afford a wife and family, instead my whole life has been focused on trying to pay that student loan. We use to win people, and education was a part of our program, our children naturally went to college, got good paying jobs and the tithe from those good paying jobs increased the tithe of the church. Today we either cannot afford to send our children to our schools, or if we do they end up in a life of debt and dispear and instead of increased tithe and offerings, their hard earned money is going to the secular finacial instituitions.

[phkrause]

Kevin

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

3. Our schools are becoming unaffordable.

I agree with that.

[Tom Wetmore]

How do we make them affordable and still provide all the programs and services expected and have all the necessary resources (human and otherwise) to make that happen?

[Woody]

Guess some who are flying around the world seeing the sights and cruising in their BMWs ... will need to let go of their material goods and donate a little more. That's the bottom line. The cost is high for quality education. That is the reality. The problem lies with US. Do we want to give of ourselves to make it affordable for students ... or not?

Someone has to pay. It's either you and I or the students.

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes, at the K-12 level, families willing to give up, temporarily some of the high ticket luxuries in exchange for the luxury of a Christian education for the kids can do so. You make a good point. But yes there are some families that truly cannot afford our schools anyway. That is where, we need much more avenues of helping those families that truly appreciate Christan education that is truly beyond their limited means.

Some do not realize how much of a subsidy from the sponsoring local church(es) and the local conference to keep a local school running. The typical tuition rates we charge at our K-12 schools typically cover only 50-60% of the overall cost of running the school. The remaining 40-50% has to come from those subsidies. If the total cost was covered only by tutition we would have to charge what secular private schools charge which looks more like college tuition.

[Stan]

This is such a real issue, isn't it?

[Tom Wetmore]

Yes it is! And one major hidden subsidy that we take for granted are the sacrifical wages that our dedicated teachers must live with. If we paid our experienced and comparatively well educated teachers (many of our elementary school teachers have a Masters degree) even comparable to public school teachers it would cost us significantly more...

[Stan]

We want them to go to our schools, at a cost of $100,000 for a degree, plus the loss of at least that much income in opportunity costs, then want them to sacrifice for the "Lord's Work" with wages less than what public school teachers get.

Great system.

[nuff sed]

and also contribute a week's wages during "Week of Sacrifice"........

[Gregory Matthews]

Something for your thought:

I attend a church that has an 11 grade school that is moving toward a 12 grad school. NOTE: It is approved as a 10 grade school, which is another interesting subject.

Some of the teachers at this school are Conference employeees, some employees are employed by the school and are not Conference employees.

The non-Conference employees are paid salaries equal to that of the Conference employees. They recieve equal retirement (but not denominational) benefitss. [Their retirement is privately obtained.] They have equal health benefits for themselves and their families. Their employement benefits are equal to that of the Conference employees.

Why do we do the above? Simple. It costs the school thousands of dollars less ech year to finance the employment benefits of the non-Conference employees than it costs the school to hire the Conference employees. The total sum of money that the Conference charges the school for each Conference employee is more than what we have to pay to provide the same benefits privately.

[Gregory Matthews]

Some of you are going to challenge me on my post above.

O.K. I will let you in on a partial part of the secret.

The Conference expects the schools to help finance the costs of the Conference Education department. So, it charges the school an administrative fee for every Conference Employee. No such fee is charged for employees of the Chruch who are not employeed by the Conference.

Are the benefits really equal? Yes. The Conference has limited the ability to provide reduced benefits. The school has to prove that it is paying equal benefits.

[Gregory Matthews]

So this is now the question that is faced in a time of reeduced income for the Conference:

How is the Education Departmetn to be financed?

To what extendt should its costs be provided dby the schools?

Or, should Conference Education departmetns be considered Conference programs with the costs provided by all, regardless of whether or not local churches have schools?

The finance answers are not easy.

[olger]

We should pray for our leaders, that in this time of reduced finances they will not be tempted to make decisions that are financially expedient but not righteous.

g

[Woody]

Just do away with the Unions and we would have lots of extra funds to fund the Education department.

Whoops ... that's a topic for another thread.