A Thought on Grace and Judgment

[Stewart (SDA)]

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

Shall we continue to knowingly transgress, "and see how far we can exploit the grace of God?" (Rom 6:1 KJV/Phillips)

I am confident that we know the answer.

"We... as workers together with Him, beseech (urge, plead with) you... that you receive not the grace of God in vain." (2Cor 6:1)

Can we agree that Grace is NOT given to sustain the Christian in known sins? If we have come to think of grace in that way then I believe we are receiving the grace of God in vain. But God has effectively built a hedge, forbidding us to enter into that way of thinking.

It is "the grace of God that brings salvation" from sin (Titus 2:11); grace does not provide us with any freedom to continue in sin.

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Ultimately, we will be judged according to the light we have received – judged according to the truths that the Holy Spirit has convicted us on.

Therefore God can, and does, legally blink at (i.e. overlook) "times of [real] ignorance". (Acts 17:30).

But the person that knows what is right and good (because the Spirit Himself has taught his conscience in that thing), and does not do it – then for that man it is sin. (Jas 4:17)

The claims of God’s law, as far as the judgment is concerned, extend only to those things that we know.

There will of course be many Christians in heaven that have been Sunday keepers, and they have known nothing else.

"The Lord has His representatives in all the churches. These persons have not had the special testing truths for these last days presented to them under circumstances that brought conviction to heart and mind; therefore they have not, by rejecting light [that has been presented to them as dry theory], severed their connection with God." (6T 70-71)

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Stewart

[Rex]

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

Shall we continue to knowingly transgress, "and see how far we can exploit the grace of God?" (Rom 6:1 KJV/Phillips)

I am confident that we know the answer.

"We... as workers together with Him, beseech (urge, plead with) you... that you receive not the grace of God in vain." (2Cor 6:1)

Can we agree that Grace is NOT given to sustain the Christian in known sins? If we have come to think of grace in that way then I believe we are receiving the grace of God in vain. But God has effectively built a hedge, forbidding us to enter into that way of thinking.

It is "the grace of God that brings salvation" from sin (Titus 2:11); grace does not provide us with any freedom to continue in sin.

Stewart

Amen brother, and may I add to that Titus 2:12-14

Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. Tit 2:14

[Guest]

I agree dgrimm, those were some good posts.

Welcome to the forum Rex.

[Stewart (SDA)]

Thank you Rex. Great words, every one of them!

Jesus has engaged in a work to purify unto Himself a peculiar people.

A purified people living in this present world? That will be a peculiar people indeed!

And truly, "among the peculiarities which should [and eventually will] distinguish God's people from the world in these last days, is their humility and meekness." 4T 226

Stewart

[Gerr]

Or as the NIV renders it:

It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age.

Or GNT:

That grace instructs us to give up ungodly living and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in this world,

[Stewart (SDA)]

Thanks Gerry.

Is it really possible to say "no" to ungodliness; to "give up" ungodly living and worldly passions? To live self-controlled, upright and godly lives? Even among people that seem to provoke one another day after day?

I delight in this little group!

Love you all.

(Yes, indeed those things are more than possible.)

Stewart.

[Guest]

Absolutely!! if it were not possible, then God would not have told us to do it.

[BobRyan]

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"

Shall we continue to knowingly transgress, "and see how far we can exploit the grace of God?" (Rom 6:1 KJV/Phillips)

I am confident that we know the answer.

"We... as workers together with Him, beseech (urge, plead with) you... that you receive not the grace of God in vain." (2Cor 6:1)

Can we agree that Grace is NOT given to sustain the Christian in known sins? If we have come to think of grace in that way then I believe we are receiving the grace of God in vain. But God has effectively built a hedge, forbidding us to enter into that way of thinking.

It is "the grace of God that brings salvation" from sin (Titus 2:11); grace does not provide us with any freedom to continue in sin.

_________________

Ultimately, we will be judged according to the light we have received – judged according to the truths that the Holy Spirit has convicted us on.

Therefore God can, and does, legally blink at (i.e. overlook) "times of [real] ignorance". (Acts 17:30).

But the person that knows what is right and good (because the Spirit Himself has taught his conscience in that thing), and does not do it – then for that man it is sin. (Jas 4:17)

The claims of God’s law, as far as the judgment is concerned, extend only to those things that we know.

There will of course be many Christians in heaven that have been Sunday keepers, and they have known nothing else.

"The Lord has His representatives in all the churches. These persons have not had the special testing truths for these last days presented to them under circumstances that brought conviction to heart and mind; therefore they have not, by rejecting light [that has been presented to them as dry theory], severed their connection with God." (6T 70-71)

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Stewart

All good points.

The gospel provides not ONLY forgiveness for sin (yes ALL kinds of sin) but also "cleansing from all unrighteousness" 1John 1:9. In return we simply take up our cross daily and follow Him.

When Gospel writers write -- they say "I write these things to you that you sin NOT" 1John 2:1.

They never say "I write because we are all stuck in slavery to sin and that is just the way it is until we get off this planet".

Romans 6 is an entire chapter devoted to the subject "not stuck in slavery to sin under the Gospel".

Nice thread.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

Quote:

The claims of God’s law, as far as the judgment is concerned, extend only to those things that we know.

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but Numbers 15 on intentional and unintentional sins suggests to me that God's law extends

EVEN to sins of ignorance. And here is where I have to agree with Robert when he says that the law does not give credit for

partial obedience. But our God, being just and gracious, can not/could not possibly hold anyone accountable for what they don't know.

[Woody]

Quote:

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, but Numbers 15 on intentional and unintentional sins suggests to me that God's law extends

EVEN to sins of ignorance. And here is where I have to agree with Robert when he says that the law does not give credit for

partial obedience. But our God, being just and gracious, can not/could not possibly hold anyone accountable for what they don't know.

Good Post over-all Gerry. I agree with much of it. But we don't have to worry about whether we are condemned by the law. There is no doubt. The Law demands perfection of which we fail. So there is no getting around it ... we need the Robe of Righteousness that can be offered ONLY by Jesus.

[Stewart (SDA)]

So there is no getting around it ... we need the Robe of Righteousness that can be offered ONLY by Jesus.

I accept this, but for me there is a proviso:

"Only by faithful repentance will [our] sins be forgiven; for God will not cover evil with the robe of His righteousness." (SD 13)

God will not cover evil with His robe of righteousness.

Evil and sin must be replaced with righteousness, His robe of righteousness will not cover known sin.

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When Moses asked to see the glory of the Lord, He passed by him, and part of the proclamation of His glory was,

"The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty... " (Ex 34:6:7)

EJ Waggoner comments well on this Scripture I think, when he says,

"That is, He will not lie by calling evil "good"; but He provides a way by which the guilty may lose their guilt." (Glad Tidings 79-80)

And the guilty lose their guilt when, through the power of God, their sins are overcome -- point by point, area by area.

Stewart

[Woody]

Quote:

His robe of righteousness will not cover known sin.

Now that's a wild thought.

Let's try this on:

If we know we have sin ... it will not be covered.

But if we don't know we have sin ... it IS covered.

Huh? Come by me again?

[Stewart (SDA)]

Fair enough. Thanks Redwood, I'll try to make my point a bit clearer in the morning.

Stewart

[BobRyan]

Good Post over-all Gerry. I agree with much of it. But we don't have to worry about whether we are condemned by the law. There is no doubt. The Law demands perfection of which we fail. So there is no getting around it ... we need the Robe of Righteousness that can be offered ONLY by Jesus.

Indeed we do. Which begs the question regarding the 2Cor 5 and Daniel 7 judgment. On what basis (what evidence) does that court room of myriads and myriads award the Rob of Righteousness to "the FEW" but not the "MANY" in the judgment?

hence the whole discussion.

in Christ,

Bob

[Gerr]

He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy. - Prov 28:13