Pierced Impressions

[Nicodema]

Please help me research this question by filling out this poll. If your answer isn't there try to pick one that's the closest. Feel free to post a note in that case stating what yours would be IF it's radically different from the choices offered in the poll.

Thanks!

[Bravus]

I have an earring most of the time, but am on a 3 year break for complicated reasons. Most facial piercings do nothing for me and just llok awkward, but that's a taste judgement and personal, and I have quite a few friends with lots of metalwork (and not only on their faces...)

This is cool though: http://www.bmezine.com/news/pubring/20041214.html

[Nicodema]

Bravus, that is slick!

I notice thus far even though we have an almost 50-50 split between "nonjudgmental" and negative (the last 2 answers), the demographic is heavily weighted toward those over 40. Only 4 respondents thus far (as of this post's writing) have been between 29 and 39, and there's no way to tell whom answered in what fashion. I wish I could correlate the answers to say whom responded how. I'd really like to know the thoughts of younger folks on this -- the teenagers and college agers -- how they view an older person (mature adult / middle-ager) who is pierced, whether they think it should be a "youth thing" and at a certain age one should just not wear it anymore for sake of age and nothing else. NOT, mind you, that this becomes a dictum, but I'm curious about people's perceptions in general.

I'm kind of regretting I did not include another positive option about just expressing one's individuality at any age. It's hard to think of all the answers for a poll ... I might have to re-do this poll ...

[Gail]

Salt and pepper ponytails... lost in an era...

It'll be the same with the piercings and tattoos, only it's more permanent with them. Not so easy to change the look to update

[cricket]

Post deleted by Christine Wall

[Nicodema]

Well you know the old saying (sanitized version): "Opinions are like [rear ends] ... everyone's got one ... and ..."

That being said: opinions are one thing. Convictions are quite another.

[Rosie]

If it helps, my almost 13 year old (she can't vote cuz I already did) picked the "dork" answer.

[Nicodema]

Thanks Rosie.

Maybe I should do a poll next asking people whether:

(a) how they express their individuality ought to be dictated by others' opinions; and

( whether what one holds as convictions ought to be dictated by others' opinions.

I find those sort of things vary depending on who's at stake. Meaning if it's someone else, of course they are entitled to my opinion. But if it's me? They can go for a long soak, don'tchaknow.

[Bravus]

I'm very happy to hear opinions from anyone (as long as they're expressed civilly) - and I'm at least equally happy to discard them if I think they're mistaken!

[Nicodema]

Ditto here. And I did ask. I just sometimes forget how annoying it can be to not be able to say a word without knowing exactly what wrong thing people will think as a result of it. Makes one want to take a lifetime vow of silence...

[GreatLakesGramma]

Personally, I think body/facial piercing is stupid, no matter what a person's age. But I don't go around telling that to people who have piercings either. If they asked, I'd be honest, but otherwise, I keep my thoughts to myself and try to ignore the disgusting sight.

[Nicodema]

This is hilarious ... look what image showed up as the ad at the bottom of this thread when I clicked on it!!! (Click URL to see image)

http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/imgad?id=CMPFj7TThtSpThDYBRhPMgh_tOV1LYF1Hw

[CWhetmore]

Pierced Eyeglasses made me exclaim, "Aha! A practical piercing for the Adventist who needs a justification to get pierced." ROFL!

Somewhere in my Adventist upbringing, the idea was subtly planted in my mind that anything with the appearance of jewelry had to have a practical application, to avoid being religious contraband. Tie tacks kept ties from creeping out of one's suit coat or flying in the breeze. Broaches held clothing in place. Watches told time.

In college (UC, AU and SAU/SMC), engagements were declared, not by a rock sported on the girl's left ring finger, but by a watch on her right wrist. Whether it was a new watch, or her fiancé's watch, was at the couple's discretion. Young Adventists of that era had very discerning eyes, immediately able to recognize the "taken" girl, just as those not of Adventist cultures recognize an engaged girl by her ring.

While walking through Wal-Mart, long ago, my eye caught a little watch mounted on a ring to be worn on one's finger. I couldn't resist buying it, although I never wore it for more than a few minutes. I relished the image of flaunting the rule against jewelry, justifying my ring as practical, since it had a watch on it.

I've half-seriously kidded that, in heaven, Adventist crowns will have little watch faces embedded in them, to avoid the appearance of jewelry.

[Anthony!]

Well, it seems to me that as a person ages, do you age gracefully or go kicking and screaming? For example, as a child of the 70's, at what age do you shed the hippie and post-hippie stuff, as you no longer need to make that statement? I mean, really, I don't know anyone my age who is still dressed like John Travolta in 'Saturday Night Fever'. Well, perhaps an exception could be made for New Jersey Mafiosi...

Will generation X and generation Y (and there is a thin line between them) shed the piercings by the time they are 50? 40? At what point in life are you secure enough with your person and role in life that you no longer need to display the statements/politics/rebellion of youth and young adulthood?

At what point in life are such symbols ineffective and passé? At what point in youth is it worthless to do it because everyone else is doing it?

Note: When I use the term 'age gracefully', I do not mean being 'old' and having an 'old mind'. I am saying to be healthy, active, and young of mind while being contemporary in an age-appropriate fashion. In other words, don't be someone you are not, caught up in the vestiges of youth, an era gone by.

"Wow, dude, I guess I can't live in the '90s anymore".

Now, more seriously, at what point does the tattoo and piercing become a form of self-mutilation? It is documented that psychologists and counsellors have found that some people with self-esteem and image issues do this as a form of self-loathing.

Just some thoughts...

Blessings, Anthony

[Nicodema]

Quote:

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Well, it seems to me that as a person ages, do you age gracefully or go kicking and screaming? For example, as a child of the 70's, at what age do you shed the hippie and post-hippie stuff, as you no longer need to make that statement? ...

Will generation X and generation Y (and there is a thin line between them) shed the piercings by the time they are 50? 40? At what point in life are you secure enough with your person and role in life that you no longer need to display the statements/politics/rebellion of youth and young adulthood?

At what point in life are such symbols ineffective and passé? At what point in youth is it worthless to do it because everyone else is doing it?

---

These are good questions, Anthony. However, they are based upon the singular assumption that a piercing, a preference for a type of clothing or a certain "look", etc. MUST have been made as a "statement" -- political, social, whatever -- during the teen or young adult years, or "because everyone else was doing it." That simply is not always the case. Moreover, even on occasions where that has been the case initially, as the individual continues to define his or her "style" concurrent with growing into his or her personhood, the initial reasons fade and the "style" simply becomes what he or she is comfortable with and accustomed to.

In either occasion, to suddenly shed that style MERELY because a milestone birthday (40? 50?) has been reached, would be nothing short of phony. It would indicate buying into a falsehood that all of a sudden, at a certain age, we must, or should, (or worse, naturally!) stop being ourselves and instead become some generic concept of what a 40-year-old, 50-year-old, or "whatever"-year-old is "supposed" to be in our society.

And that seems a whale of a lot more tragic to me than risking some greenhorn's cynical and scorning eye roll because you sport an earring or a labret with those silver strands.

Quote:

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Now, more seriously, at what point does the tattoo and piercing become a form of self-mutilation? It is documented that psychologists and counsellors have found that some people with self-esteem and image issues do this as a form of self-loathing.

---

Again, I would say this has to do with why the individual themselves has chosen to do it. There really are no "one size fits all" reasons for the various ways we decorate ourselves, whether it's with clothing, jewelry, piercings, body art, or something else. I had one very rude woman at a campmeeting last year literally SCREAM in my face that I was "still with the devil" because I was "wearing his wedding ring in my lip". No one else hassled me over having a labret but this woman had decided because SHE believed it to be a sign of the devil, it was. Now, I did many things when I used to be in the occult to signify my occultism, but my labret was not one of them. It was obtained for purely personal reasons that had nothing to do with occultism (or with making a "statement" since I was already past 30 at the time)!

However ... it could be argued that laser tattoo removal merely because one has bought into a guilt-trip conscience-bullying that one should no longer wear a tattoo after joining the church certainly constitutes a form of unnecessary self-mutilation and expresses self-loathing (or at least self-recrimination) -- and painfully so (lasers HURT).

[Bravus]

I had a similar reaction to your questions, Anthony - I'm not so sure that age has to necessarily imply increasing homogeneity of style. Surely it's only a historical accident that younger people in our current society have access to a wider range of style choices than older people?

Anyway, I think maybe the crucial point that Nico was trying to get at with this thread is still being obscured. It's basically about being able, as mature adults, to make a distinction between (a) what I choose for me, ( what someone else chooses for him/herself, © Western Christian culture at the beginning of the 21st century and (d) what God requires. If we can't make those distinctions, we constrain ourselves and judge others in ways that may be much narrower than God requires...

[Pockey]

I used to have a few piercings (tongue, nose, ears). In my case, I was trying to be different.

If I see an older person wearing piercings, I generally have found them to be more approachable, down to earth, and well...just plain nice. I'm usually much more wary of someone in a suit.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

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These are good questions, Anthony. However, they are based upon the singular assumption that a piercing, a preference for a type of clothing or a certain "look", etc. MUST have been made as a "statement" -- political, social, whatever -- during the teen or young adult years, or "because everyone else was doing it." That simply is not always the case. Moreover, even on occasions where that has been the case initially, as the individual continues to define his or her "style" concurrent with growing into his or her personhood, the initial reasons fade and the "style" simply becomes what he or she is comfortable with and accustomed to.

In either occasion, to suddenly shed that style MERELY because a milestone birthday (40? 50?) has been reached, would be nothing short of phony. It would indicate buying into a falsehood that all of a sudden, at a certain age, we must, or should, (or worse, naturally!) stop being ourselves and instead become some generic concept of what a 40-year-old, 50-year-old, or "whatever"-year-old is "supposed" to be in our society.

And that seems a whale of a lot more tragic to me than risking some greenhorn's cynical and scorning eye roll because you sport an earring or a labret with those silver strands.

---

Nico,

Despite the fact that, in a manner of speaking, I agree with almost every thing you've posted in your post maybe just because it's so logical, I don't really believe it tells half the truth about what your attempting to explain. The reason I believe that, is because I also believe there can be no reasoning within the grasp of man that will satisfy either the search to understand the mystery of iniquity and/or the mystery of Godliness.

[:"red"] "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places" [/] Eph 6:12

[:"red"] "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way." [/] 2 Thess 2:7

[:"red"] "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." [/] 1 Tim 3:16

Lift Jesus up!!

[Nicodema]

Quote:

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Despite the fact that, in a manner of speaking, I agree with almost every thing you've posted in your post maybe just because it's so logical, I don't really believe it tells half the truth about what your attempting to explain. The reason I believe that, is because I also believe there can be no reasoning within the grasp of man that will satisfy either the search to understand the mystery of iniquity and/or the mystery of Godliness.

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I'm not sure what you're saying here though. What is it you perceive me as trying to explain? I agree with your latter statement but I don't understand how you are relating it to the one before it.

For the record, I do not subscribe to the belief that piercing and tattooing are sin in and of themselves. I do understand the Old Testament Israelites were told not to cut or mark their bodies for the sake of the dead. I don't see how that relates to the modern experience of getting a tattoo or a piercing.

I have not felt convicted by the Holy Spirit that I must cease wearing my labret, if we want to get personal here. Of course, if I were functioning in any sort of capacity within the church that it would be a point of stumbling for others, it would not be any trouble for me to take it out for their sakes, but that does not mean I'd cease wearing it in private, either, since it would be a courtesy for others, not a conviction for myself.

My one tattoo, on the other hand, is of occultic origin. It really doesn't bother me to the point where I feel compelled to remove it, particularly since doing so would be painful AND expensive. It testifies to where I came from, not where I'm going, and as long as I don't unbutton a blouse too far no one will see it as it is over my chest toward the left. However it is a symbol of a "familiar spirit" of sorts, an entity I regarded as my HGA (Holy Guardian Angel -- trust me this is NOT a Christian use of the term here) who guided someone before me who died in 1952 and functioned also as a link between myself and this former living person. This more than anything could be said to correspond to the prohibition upon the OT Israelites. HOWEVER it must be said this is an unique case, and most people who get tattoos are just wanting cool permanent body art, not symbolizing some occult tie to some spirit entity. So it would not be accurate to judge all on that basis.

That's just my personal end of things.

[Amelia]

[]http://www.funnyhub.com/pictures/img/muscle-tattoo.jpg[/]

[:"blue"] EWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW [/]

[cricket]

While the thought of having that permanently tatooed on one's body is a gross thought to me, I have to admit that the image this person has portrayed is rather appealing to me. I think it's cool--in a weird sort of way.

[Nicodema]

I think it is VERY cool, actually. I like it. I'd never get it done on me (takes too long, too much pain), but I think it looks neat.

[Anthony!]

Massively COOL!!

[Nicodema]

Notice also how you have to have the BODY to carry it off right -- on someone not so well toned in muscle it would look awful. It's the combination of the tattooed sinews and the good muscle tone of the real arm that give the look its character.

[Bravus]

Heh - maybe *that's* the reason we see less body mods on us wrinklies... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />