SivartM Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 What do you all think of this? http://www.scripturecatholic.com/purgatory.html Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Robert Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 It needs purgatory to purge out all the heresies... Rob Quote
Guest Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 What's to think? It's just more Catholic doctrine. (heresy) Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 23, 2010 Members Posted January 23, 2010 My great grandfather has his big toe still in purgatory. That's what the priest said. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators Nan Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Posted January 23, 2010 It is always interesting to see how certain texts are used to support doctrines, in ways I would never have considered. Quote
SivartM Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 My great grandfather has his big toe still in purgatory. That's what the priest said. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 23, 2010 Members Posted January 23, 2010 Originally Posted By: rudywoofs My great grandfather has his big toe still in purgatory. That's what the priest said. I hope he was being metaphorical. :\ No, the priest was being quite serious. My great grandmother took money to the priest every week to try and buy the big toe out of purgatory, but the priest always said it wasn't enough money. True story. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
SivartM Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 No, the priest was being quite serious. My great grandmother took money to the priest every week to try and buy the big toe out of purgatory, but the priest always said it wasn't enough money. True story. What a ripoff. So he was kind of sticking out of the ground in heaven? That must have been uncomfortable. I wonder what took the big toe so long to get out. Of course, the Catholic church doesn't officially endorse scams like that... fortunately... Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Moderators Nan Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Posted January 23, 2010 [quote=SivartM What do you think of their proof texts? Are they any better than our proof texts? Any doctrine has to be considered in the light of what the whole Bible has to say on the subject. To negate their proof texts we have to show how a particular interpretaton is not consistent with other Biblical statements. Which is how others try to discredit 'our' prooftexts too I guess. Quote
Members rudywoofs (Pam) Posted January 23, 2010 Members Posted January 23, 2010 I don't know....as far as my family can determine, the big toe is still in purgatory. But my great grandmother finally said, "well, he always did have cold feet." And she stopped paying the priest. This was back in the late 1800's. Quote Pam Meddle Not In the Affairs of Dragons; for You Are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup. If we all sang the same note in the choir, there'd never be any harmony. Funny, isn't it, how we accept Grace for ourselves and demand justice for others?
Moderators John317 Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Posted January 23, 2010 I wanted to know what you thought of their proof texts. Which ones do you believe are the strongest evidence for their belief in purgatory? Quote: So, I ask again... did you expect the Catholics to have all this "Biblical support" (if not, that's Adventist prejudice)? First, we need to look and see if it is truly "all this 'Biblical support.'" Quote: What do you think of their proof texts? Are they any better than our proof texts? Do you mean "our proof texts" regarding the nature of man in death, etc.? The Seventh-day Adventist understanding of the biblical doctrine of the nature of man and of what happens when humans die is not based on "proof-texts" per se but on a careful exegesis of all that the Bible says in relation to these subjects. I'd like to know your answer, first, and what you see as the biblical basis of it. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
SivartM Posted January 23, 2010 Author Posted January 23, 2010 What I meant by "Biblical support" was that they actually had proof texts. Most people are under the impression that it's just something the pope made up one day. And I mean all of our proof texts in general, but especially our proof texts on death, etc. What do you want me to answer? I don't like making up opinions on the spot. Quote "Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much." - Oscar Wilde�Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets." - Jesus
Robert Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 The Roman Catholic church teaches what is called "infused grace". That means God actually makes the sinner righteous. Since mortality is linked with sin & death, immortality is linked with righteousness and life. All their error can be traced back to this heresy - i.e., that the Catholic has actually been made righteous. It's a very legalistic religion. Quote
Moderators John317 Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Posted January 23, 2010 Most people are under the impression that it's just something the pope made up one day. Yes, that would be an oversimplification, for sure. The development of Catholic doctrine is far more complex than that, especially its doctrines about purgatory and other related beliefs. Quote: And I mean all of our proof texts in general, but especially our proof texts on death, etc. The best way to study the topic is to go through the entire Bible and mark all the texts dealing with the nature of man, the soul, death, resurrection, and judgment. Most SDA Bible studies on the subject of death give only a fraction of the texts dealing with it. There's a lot there that many people haven't noticed or studied. Quote: What do you want me to answer? I don't like making up opinions on the spot. I just thought maybe you had studied it and had some ideas you'd thought through to share. I must say it's a very interesting and very important subject. Almost all of my in-laws are Roman Catholic, but only one regularly attends Mass. My wife was Catholic the first four years of our marriage and I used to go with her to Mass, to light candles, and pray to the Virgin of Guadalupe. Some members of her family attend church with us when they come up from Mexico on week-ends to visit. My wife shares with them what she's studied in the Bible about death, and two of her sister's are very receptive. One of them is relieved to learn that her dead husband isn't in purgatory, and my wife was thrilled to learn years ago that her parents aren't suffering but are asleep in the grave. One of my wife's sisters told us that she saw her husband's spirit come to her shortly after he died, but now she is happy to realize it wasn't him. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted January 23, 2010 Moderators Posted January 23, 2010 ...my great grandmother finally said, "well, he always did have cold feet." And she stopped paying the priest. This was back in the late 1800's. It's still common for Roman Catholics to pay the priests to pray for their dead loved ones, and the priest will never tell them that their loved one is now out of purgatory so they can stop praying for their release. It's also common for them to pray to various dead saints for help. My experience is that they oftener pray to saints than directly to Jesus. One of my wife's sisters crawled on her bloodied knees over cobbled roads for miles in order to have the Virgin help heal her sick son. I felt sorry for her but it wasn't a good time to tell her that the Virgin is dead. If you were to go down to Mexico and preach the truth on the street corners there, it would be very dangerous. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Robert Posted January 23, 2010 Posted January 23, 2010 If you were to go down to Mexico and preach the truth on the street corners there, it would be very dangerous. Yes, and because of the illegal problem in the US, one day the majority religion will be Catholic....Scary... Rob Quote
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