Being Raptured ...

[Woody]

Do we believe in being raptured?

I don't find anything offensive and in opposition to our beliefs regarding rapture. Are we not going to be raptured from this earth. Well ... if we are going to be saved ... we will have to be raptured to Heaven.

I will start off this discussion with the definition of being raptured.

1. ecstatic joy or delight; joyful ecstasy.

2. Often, raptures. an utterance or expression of ecstatic delight.

3. the carrying of a person to another place or sphere of existence.

4. the Rapture, Theology. the experience, anticipated by some fundamentalist Christians, of meeting Christ midway in the air upon his return to earth.

5. Archaic. the act of carrying off.

–verb (used with object) 6. to enrapture.

[SivartM]

Since the Bible uses the word "rapture" to describe the second coming... I think we will be raptured. :)

[Woody]

Thank SivartM. May I just ask then ... why so much opposition to the word when we see it in songs etc.

[SivartM]

Probably because we associate it with the "secret rapture", and obviously everyone who believes in THAT hates Jesus. Or something. So... we can't use that bad word. :(

[Woody]

Okay. I won't tell anyone about that. I will keep it a secret.

[John317]

Since the Bible uses the word "rapture" to describe the second coming... I think we will be raptured.

What Greek word is translated "raptured" and which translation reads this way?

[Woody]

Well ... our prophet calls it The rapture of the Saved:

"The Rapture of the Saved"

"As if entranced, the wicked have looked upon the coronation of the Son of God. They see in His hands the tables of the divine law, the statutes which they have despised and transgressed. They witness the outburst of wonder, rapture, and adoration from the saved; and as the wave of melody sweeps over the multitudes without the city, all with one voice exclaim, "Great and marvelous are Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints" (Revelation 15:3); and, falling prostrate, they worship the Prince of life." {DD 56.1}

[SivartM]

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up [Greek harpazo, translated rapturo in Latin] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

[Woody]

Amen

[John317]

.... we associate it with the "secret rapture"...

I'm reading some books by pretribulational writers, who believe in the "rapture," and while they do often use the word "rapture," one can read many of their books without ever coming across the phrase "secret rapture." It is almost always used by people who are critical of the pre-tribulational viewpoints, but very rately by those who believe in it.

[SivartM]

Well, yeah, because they don't believe in any other sort. But we have to do something to tell our rapture apart from theirs. Evolutionists don't use the terms "micro-evolution" and "macro-evolution", either.

[Guest]

Rapture - Yes

Secret - NO

[John317]

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up [Greek harpazo, translated rapturo in Latin] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.

The Greek word, harpazo(Strongs #726), occurs a total of 13 times in the New Testament. Strongs defines it as "to seize (in various applications):- catch away, catch up, pluck, pull, take by force."

Matt. 11: 12-- "take by force," "seize"(the violent take the kingdom by force)

Matt. 13: 19-- "catches away," "snatches away" (the wicked one comes and snatches away what was heard)

John 6: 15-- "take by force," "to seize" (the people try to take Jesus in order to make Him king)

John 10: 12-- "catches," "seizes" (the wolf catches the sheep)

John 10: 28-- "pluck," "snatch" (no one can snatch Christ's people out of his hand)

John 10: 29-- "pluck," "snatch" (See above)

Acts 8: 39-- "caught away," "caught up" (the Lord caught Philip away)

Acts 23: 10-- "to take by force," "to seize" (soldiers were commanded to take Paul by force)

2 Cor. 12: 2-- "caught up" (Paul was caught up to the third heaven)

2 Cor. 12: 4-- "caught up" (Paul was caught up into Paradise)

1 Thess. 4: 17-- "shall be caught up" (the saints to be caught up to meet Jesus in the air)

Jude 23-- "pulling out" (save people by pulling them out of the fire)

Rev. 12: 5-- "caught up" (the Child was caught up to God and His throne)

It is never translated as "raptured" in any of those verses. The standard Greek lexicons define it as "to seize, to snatch, to catch," and in 1 Thess. 4: 17, "caught away," "snatched away," "caught up," "carried off." None of these mention the word "rapture" occurs in any of their definitions.

Even the Catholic translations from the Latin Vulgate translate it as "caught up." See the Confraternity version at 1 Thess. 4: 17.

Out of over 65 translations of this verse, I could not find a single one which reads "raptured" in 1 Thess. 4: 17.

Do you know of any which do translate it in this way?

[SivartM]

My point was that the Latin word is "rapturo" from which we get the word "rapture". I don't know of any English translation that says "rapture".

[John317]

Well ... our prophet calls it The rapture of the Saved:

"The Rapture of the Saved"

"As if entranced, the wicked have looked upon the coronation of the Son of God. They see in His hands the tables of the divine law, the statutes which they have despised and transgressed. They witness the outburst of wonder, rapture, and adoration from the saved; and as the wave of melody sweeps over the multitudes without the city, all with one voice exclaim, "Great and marvelous are Thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are Thy ways, Thou King of saints" (Revelation 15:3); and, falling prostrate, they worship the Prince of life." {DD 56.1}

Here Ellen White is not using the word "rapture" to refer to the Second Coming. It's being used in relation to words such as "wonder" and "adoration." "Rapture" also means "ecstasy," and it's in this sense that the wicked witness the "rapture" of the saints. It has nothing to do with the way the word is used by people who teach the pretribulation "rapture."

Therefore it is not true that Ellen White is calling the Second Coming "the rapture of the Saved."

[John317]

My point was that the Latin word is "rapturo" from which we get the word "rapture". I don't know of any English translation that says "rapture".

If it does not occur in either the original language or in any English translations of the Bible, it's incorrect to say that the Bible uses "rapture" in describing the Second Coming. It's not enough to say that we get the word "rapture" from the Latin translation of the Greek, because the Latin word in the Vulgate at 1 Thess. 4: 17 means "taken away" or "caught up," exactly the same as the Greek word which it translates.

Even those scholars who believe in the pretribulation rapture do not assert that 1 Thess 4: 17 should be translated "raptured."

My point in making these distinctions is that as a church we need to make it clear that we don't believe Christians will be taken to heaven before Christ comes in His glory. If we neglect to make this clear, our use of "rapture" will be misunderstood.

I think it's best to stick with the biblical language rather than adopt popular terms that really do violence to the Scriptural teaching. In this case, "the rapture" is used to teach that the church goes to be with the Lord before Christ returns in glory and destroys the antichrist power. The dangerous aspect of this interpretation is that it teaches that people will still have opportunity to be saved AFTER the church is "raptured" to heaven.