US Commences Illegal Penetrations of Iranian Airspace

[bevin]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1802&ncid=1802&e=1&u=/washpost/a19820_2005feb12

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The Bush administration has been flying surveillance drones over Iran for nearly a year to seek evidence of nuclear weapons programs and detect weaknesses in air defenses, according to three U.S. officials with detailed knowledge of the secret effort.

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The USA protested when the Soviets put missiles in Cuba. That was very naughty of them.

But it is okay for us to fly spy-planes over other people's soveign airspace - because we are ???

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Condi Rice is lying when she says we have no plans to attack Iran or North Korea.

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

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Condi Rice is lying when she says we have no plans to attack Iran or North Korea.

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Did an angel tell you this? vision? dream?

[Nicodema]

Americocentric thinking is no longer appropriate in today's world. We have to grow up as a nation and stop thinking of ourselves as the center of everything and the singular exception to all the rules.

[Jeannieb43]

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The Bush administration has been flying surveillance drones over Iran for nearly a year to seek evidence of nuclear weapons programs and detect weaknesses in air defenses, according to three U.S. officials with detailed knowledge of the secret effort.

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Dubya's orders: "Find me a reason to launch another invasion."

The guy who shirks his duty to serve in any military operation where he might get hurt, lives out his Napoleon fantasies to the full now that he has the chance.

[Dr. Shane]

You must have forgotten that as a National Guard piolet he volunteered to go to Vietnaum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Or did he do that just becuase he thought someday he would run for President? Oh no, wait a mintue, he never brought that up when he ran for President. Must of been for some other selfish reason. Surely not because he was a brave and patriotic American.

[Dr. Shane]

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Americocentric thinking is no longer appropriate in today's world.

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In whose world was it appropriate? When? Who was President? Who was the pope? And which nation will lead the world to wander after the beast? When will that be?

[Neil D]

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You must have forgotten that as a National Guard piolet he volunteered to go to Vietnaum.

Or did he do that just becuase he thought someday he would run for President? Oh no, wait a mintue, he never brought that up when he ran for President. Must of been for some other selfish reason. Surely not because he was a brave and patriotic American.

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Oh bother, Shane...You continue to glorify a man whose PR is sullied only by facts of the reputation. He knew he didn't have the required flight hours to go to Vietnam, and it does look good on record. Shoot, even you will do some things so that it looks good on a resume and it doesn't cost much if at all. And volentering when you know you ain't going is a sure thing....Beside, if they took him, Daddy is a congressman who can get this type of order recended.

You continue to glorify a man who is hides his real intention thru bogus ideas. You elected this man who goes to war selling us that there were WMDs in Iraq. He now is messing with Social Security and expects you and the public to take less money because it's the patriotic thing to do. He's got the judicial system wrapped up to take out the liberal ideas that have passed muster thru congress, ie Social Security, and every other legislation that benefits the common man. See Federal Judges in 2005: Rights Concerns ...

But Hey, you don't care....just as long as YOUR conservative views hold sway, it doesn't matter if your freedoms are removed. And if they affect everyone else except you , so much the better.... What do I know...I am just some leftest political who doesn't value freedom and responsiblity...

[Dr. Shane]

Al Gore Jr. went to Vietnaum even though his dad was a senator. Senators have more power than congressmen so there goes that conspiracy theory.

It was a brave thing for Bush to volunteer to go to Vietnaum. Yet some want to accuse him of hiding in the National Guard so he didn't have to go to war. For them, they just can't bring themselves to admit that Bush wasn't hiding and in fact volunteered for combat.

Some seem to want to bring Bush down to the Clinton level of draft dodging. They need to just accept the fact that Clinton dodged the draft and there is no comparison between Clinton's youthful corwardace and Bush's youthful indiscretions. Bush was a partier and did a lot of stupid things. But avoiding military service wasn't one of them.

Stop trying to bring Bush down to Clinton's level for goodness sake. These are two different men, two different presidents. Destroying one man's charachter will not help the other one out anyway.

[Dr. Shane]

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What do I know...I am just some leftest political who doesn't value freedom and responsiblity...

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Hmmmm, now that is interesting. But really, we are not Catholics here, you don't need to confess to us.

[Neil D]

Here we go againg....We were talking about Bush, and the first thing out of Shanes mouth is ....Al Gore, Jr!!!

We are talking C U R R E N T politics/policies and Shane is still living in the past, talking about Gore and Clinton....

This is called confusing the issues. When one centers on an issue, the counter is to confuse the issue with past experiences of others.....It is used to avoid the embarrasingly arguement that was origionally forwarded as legitment.

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Stop trying to bring Bush down to Clinton's level for goodness sake. These are two different men, two different presidents. Destroying one man's charachter will not help the other one out anyway.

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Hey, you are the one that is glorigying Bush, and putting out that spin. I merely provided balance in the man's character. Remember, he is the one who is intitating the Social Security change, He is the one who caused us to break Iraq, He is the one who is charging the whole war affair so that YOUR children have to pay for it. It not my fault that YOU voted for this....I did my best to talk some sense to you and others...It's not my fault that this is the man you choose to represent you and HIS concerns.... He is now spending the political money that YOU gave him, Shane....

[Dr. Shane]

Who is living in the past?

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The guy who shirks his duty to serve in any military operation where he might get hurt

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I believe that is talking about an President Bush's National Guard service that happened 30 years ago. Is the 30 years ago the past?

Now when I bring some perspective about the issue that happened 30 years ago by talking about Clinton and Gore experiences during the same period of time, the other side suddenly doesn't want to talk about the past.

Why is it ok to talk about Bush's NG service but not Clinton's draft dodging or Gore's inability to get out of Vietnaum?

[bevin]

The Iranian's are now talking about, and attempting to, and apparently succeeding in, shooting down some of these un-manned aircraft.

Shane - do you think it is their right to do so? Do you think it is the USA's right to send them? Do you think the Iranian's have a right to send unmanned drones over the USA?

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

Glad you asked the question, Brother Bevin. Do I think the US has the right to fly over Iran or Iran fly over the US? This is a common practice of gathering intelligence. If it is done, I don't have a problem with it. If planes get shot down in the process, I don't see that as a justification for war.

So my answer is yes the US has a right to fly over Iran and Iran has a right to shoot us down if they catch us. Iran has a right to fly over the US and the US has a right to shoot them down if we catch them.

[bevin]

How far away from their borders are they allowed to shoot? Are they allowed to shoot the bases from which the planes are launched?

/Bevin

[Dr. Shane]

A nation's airspace is established by international law. Now don't be silly.

[bevin]

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A nation's airspace is established by international law.

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Correct - so what are we doing violating theirs?

Since when did breaking the law become okay just because you can get away with it?

/Bevin

[Neil D]

Jeanies full quote-

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The guy who shirks his duty to serve in any military operation where he might get hurt, lives out his Napoleon fantasies to the full now that he has the chance.

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Now when I bring some perspective about the issue that happened 30 years ago by talking about Clinton and Gore experiences during the same period of time, the other side suddenly doesn't want to talk about the past.

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That is because you took her quote out of context and focused upon ONE aspect of her quote. Her quote showed the continuity of the Napolean complex in relation to Bush...Your "balance" wnet to another topic and took this thread

I would call that an

[Dr. Shane]

No, she took the thread off topic and I didn't let her get away with it. Some just can't give up their cherished hatred for this president.

[Dr. Shane]

Bevin:

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Since when did breaking the law become okay just because you can get away with it?

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Shane:

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This is a common practice of gathering intelligence.

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It reminds me of a story a high school teacher told me when I was growing up in Seattle. He had went out fishing in the Straight of Juan de Fuca and while fishing a Soviet sub surfaced and scared him to death. He called the Coast Guard and they told him they were aware of the sub and had been monitoring it.

The submarine was in our coastal waters and violating international law. However such things are common place in intelligence gathering.