SDAs/Christians and Sports - time to re-evaluate?

[Liz]

Great it seems like our family tree just got extended!! So let me see if I got this right.

Woody and Neil are of course my uncles, so now SivartM is my cousin because he is now claiming Neil as an uncle too, and Gerry is his dad? Which would make Gerry my uncle too? Fantastic!!! But Uncle Neil, who is Krause?? Unless you are talking about PKrause? How does he fit in, because he isn't even in this thread?

And just in time for Super Bowl Sunday too, I will bring plenty of popcorn.

As to the original topic. Haven't people always enjoyed sports of one kind or another even in Bible times? Goliath was the philistines champion so they obviously had some kind of contests to figure that out.

Perhaps Christians have become more complacent on which sports they endorse, once they started getting a choice in the matter? They have decided it is better to be in the stands at the coliseum and watching the carnage, than being down below being fed to the lions.

[SivartM]

I have found that most people who are SDA are wimps. I have been trying for years for some of our Colleges and Universities to play college sports with other college teams--but with so many wimps out there who run the schools, it is a losing battle. Interestingly, Revelation 22:15 tells us what happens to wimps (cowards).

I don't see anything about wimps in Revelation 22:15. Nor have I heard reports of wimps running our schools. But the blanket condemnation of people who are not obsessed with sports as "wimps" is almost amusing.

Maybe (and I'm just guessing here), these wimps have better things to do. Like blogging. Or contributing to society.

[Not replying to anyone] I saw a book at the library the other day called "How Football Explains America". I would have checked it out... but if it turned out to be true I didn't want to have to move to another country. :(

[Neil D]

Does that mean you two are brothers?

uh, no...He's on the otherside of the family tree...Grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, if you get my meaning....How he got grafted in, I am NOT sure.....But I am sure that there is a scandel in there somewhere.....

[abelisle]

"Jogging is the WORST exercise that you can do to your body. It actually shrinks the heart and lungs, retains bodyfat, and causes the body to lose muscle"

Sorry tallmark, but this statement is categorically untrue. The only part of it that is true is losing muscle mass if one maintains a high workload volume on a weekly basis e.g. 60 - 100 miles a week.

Please show me the research that speaks to the shrinking of the heart and lungs.

I'm both a bodybuilder and jogger now (61) and am in fine health

Alex

[Liz]

::wolf whistle::

[Neil D]

Great it seems like our family tree just got extended!! So let me see if I got this right.

Woody and Neil are of course my uncles, so now SivartM is my cousin because he is now claiming Neil as an uncle too, and Gerry is his dad? Which would make Gerry my uncle too? Fantastic!!! But Uncle Neil, who is Krause?? Unless you are talking about PKrause? How does he fit in, because he isn't even in this thread?

Woody may be your "Uncle", and he might be some shirt-tail "in-law", but with him growing those poppys, I concider him an "OUT-LAW".

[SivartM]

This is why I don't come to family reunions. :\

[phkrause]

The TIME 2/8 issue's cover story: THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, referring to football. One in 53 in the age group 30-49 of retired NFL players receive a diagnosis of dementia, Alzheimer's or another memory-related disease. High school football players alone suffer 43,000 to 67,000 concussions per year. This may very well be a low figure, since many players do not report the more minor concussions for ego/machismo or other reasons. Paralyis and deaths also occur.

The cover story in CHRISTIANITY TODAY has : Fanatics - How Christians have succumbed to the culture of sports.

Is it time to re-evaluate are attitudes towards sports? At least the more dangerous ones? (This coming from a football lover.)

Not sure why we have to reevaluate Christians and Sports. Fanatics are everywhere!!!!! How about re-evaluating Christians and Religion? How many fanatics do you think we will find? Not only that how many play sports to kill another human being? I think the number would be a big ZERO. Having said that there have been numerous deaths in sports. Especially boxing. Which I think is the most dangerous sport. I also bet that if they did a survey they would find per amount of people that partisipate in boxing the percentage of dementia, alzheimer's or another memory-related issue's are by far more than football. And also talking about fanatics, I'd say there are far more fanatics involved in politics than sports. How many arguments have we found in any of the sports forums compared to the politic's and religion forums????? That should be a very telling indication in itself. I'm not saying that there are no fanatics in sports, I've seen that up close and personal. I've been to many Yankee vs Red Sox baseball games, at Yankee statium and Fenway Park. And heard all the crazy langauge that people use against each other. And how about hockey games, which I would put in second place as far as dangerous. There people go to see and watch fights between players and if there are none people go home and say how boring the game was. No I disagree that sports should be re-evaluated before we re-evaluate politics and religion.

pk

[phkrause]

Most sport is about the "exaltation of self"...

If not all sport.

Why would any Christian want to "exalt self"?

Mark :-)

I agree! Why should any christian want to exalt self. Not just in sports but in religion, politics, etc. You see it here in the religion and politics forums. I've played sports my whole life have never cared if I lost or won. It was always about doing my best. Just like the Apostle Paul said run the race to the best of your ability. That's what has always matter to me. Sure in sports no one likes losing, but someone has to lose. As far as Salvation is concerned no has to lose. In a road race there is the person that comes in first, second etc. And they are glorified for that form others, whereas with heaven all are glorified and welcomed by our Lord and Savior. He welcomes each and every one of us as if we had all come in first.

pk

[phkrause]

The way that you two talk, you two are father and son.....

are you?

Now that's pretty funny Neil.

pk

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Neil D

The way that you two talk, you two are father and son.....

are you?

Wouldn't you like to know, uncle Neil?

Lol, no...

Good one Sivart. :)

pk

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

Most sport is about the "exaltation of self"...

If not all sport.

Why would any Christian want to "exalt self"?

Mark :-)

If someone has a desire to "exalt self", they will find plenty of opportunities to do so - from the pulpit, during church board meetings, while playing music at church, showing off how clever they are in Sabbath school discussions, driving their fancy sports car to church and parking it right near the door, dressing in a way that clearly indicates that they are wealthy (but without makeup and jewelry!), you name it.

I'm sure everybody has seen fine examples of this kind of "self-exaltation."

If someone loves and cares for their neighbor and wants to get together and spend some time getting exercise while practicing teamwork, enjoying one another's fellowship and looking out for the well-being of others as well as ensuring it is fair and everyone has a good time, then these attitudes will be reflected in the way they play sport (as well as they way they do everything else).

Like the theater issue, we are once again getting the externals confused with what is in the heart. Banning sports will not suddenly make everybody unselfish and loving.

aldona

Excellent points aldona.

pk

[phkrause]

Great it seems like our family tree just got extended!! So let me see if I got this right.

Woody and Neil are of course my uncles, so now SivartM is my cousin because he is now claiming Neil as an uncle too, and Gerry is his dad? Which would make Gerry my uncle too? Fantastic!!! But Uncle Neil, who is Krause?? Unless you are talking about PKrause? How does he fit in, because he isn't even in this thread?

And just in time for Super Bowl Sunday too, I will bring plenty of popcorn.

As to the original topic. Haven't people always enjoyed sports of one kind or another even in Bible times? Goliath was the philistines champion so they obviously had some kind of contests to figure that out.

Perhaps Christians have become more complacent on which sports they endorse, once they started getting a choice in the matter? They have decided it is better to be in the stands at the coliseum and watching the carnage, than being down below being fed to the lions.

I was just going to ask the same thing Liz! My ears were burning and than I read my name being used by Neil and I knew why?

pk

[phkrause]

Originally Posted By: Dr. Rich

I have found that most people who are SDA are wimps. I have been trying for years for some of our Colleges and Universities to play college sports with other college teams--but with so many wimps out there who run the schools, it is a losing battle. Interestingly, Revelation 22:15 tells us what happens to wimps (cowards).

I don't see anything about wimps in Revelation 22:15. Nor have I heard reports of wimps running our schools. But the blanket condemnation of people who are not obsessed with sports as "wimps" is almost amusing.

Maybe (and I'm just guessing here), these wimps have better things to do. Like blogging. Or contributing to society.

[Not replying to anyone] I saw a book at the library the other day called "How Football Explains America". I would have checked it out... but if it turned out to be true I didn't want to have to move to another country.

I definitely agree with your reply to Dr. Rich. I love sports, playing it and watching it. But would never tell someone that doesn't care for sports that they are wrong for not participating.

pk

[phkrause]

Was wondering Alex if you were going to reply to that post. Even I who don't jog knew that and would also like to see some documentation!!!!!!!!!!!

pk

[doug yowell]

What? Oh my goodness-well let me speak for all of the jocks that believe blogging on the computer is boring and a complete waste of time. That's probably the reason you don't have many standing up for sports regardless of what the sport is.

As a 'jock' in school, my major at Walla Walla and Union College was PE. I have played just about every sport out there in some way or the other but love bow-hunting the best because I feel closest to Heaven while doing so. Maybe this is why some of you call me 'brain dead'-at least I have an excuse.

I have found that most people who are SDA are wimps. I have been trying for years for some of our Colleges and Universities to play college sports with other college teams--but with so many wimps out there who run the schools, it is a losing battle. Interestingly, Revelation 22:15 tells us what happens to wimps (cowards).

What's wrong with being a wimp, Dr. Rich? Are you suggesting that anyone who opposes a full on competitive sports program in our (formerly) Christian training Institutions is a wimp? And what do we gain by competing in athletics against other colleges? Would the spiritual benefit be worth the expenditure?

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: Tallmark

I also love mixed martial arts (Ultimate Fighting). Maybe it's because I was picked on as a kid in school, but it's a lot safer than football. I started out boxing, went to kickboxing, then Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.

I know kick-boxing, boxing, karate, judo, jiu-jitsu, and twenty-seven other mean sounding words.

Scarey! I just hope you don't apostatize!!

[doug yowell]

The TIME 2/8 issue's cover story: THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, referring to football. One in 53 in the age group 30-49 of retired NFL players receive a diagnosis of dementia, Alzheimer's or another memory-related disease. High school football players alone suffer 43,000 to 67,000 concussions per year. This may very well be a low figure, since many players do not report the more minor concussions for ego/machismo or other reasons. Paralyis and deaths also occur.

The cover story in CHRISTIANITY TODAY has : Fanatics - How Christians have succumbed to the culture of sports.

Is it time to re-evaluate are attitudes towards sports? At least the more dangerous ones? (This coming from a football lover.)

Gerry, without reading the CT story it would appear from the title to be addressing the "culture" of sports, something that EGW counseled against quite often. To those among us, who were blessed with physical skills and cursed with a competitive drive, the culture of sports can easily become a very real addiction. In a society that idolizes excellence in the physical arena and ridicules excellence in the spiritual rehelm resistance to the norm can be quite humbling.

[Dr. Rich]

Doug, the difference between wimps and those with courage is the same difference between preference and conviction. Those who call themselves 'Christians' without keeping all ten of the commandments and keeping the words of Jesus given to us by His eyewitness, are just being a 'christian' and do not have a firm conviction-one that even the threat of death would not change.

Revelation 21:8 (I did miss-state the right verse earlier) states that the cowardly will be thrown in the lake of fire.

As a coach in our schools, I have seen many kids that tried out for sports quit because they could not take the discipline of being coached. The same is going to happen when the war is made against those who keep the commandments and the testimony of Jesus--the wimps will quit because their 'faith' is only because of preference.

Sports teaches one to become disciplined, just as one who goes to med school. But those who don't think sports have any benefit in our society are missing the point. I have attended SDA schools ever since the 5th grade and have found that many high minded people who worshiped aunt Ellen were the ones who didn't even want our schools to have sports. These are the same ones who have a fit when they see or hear about SDA members who watch or play sports on the Sabbath. If I want to play a game of golf on Sabbath that is between me and God. Sure, golf to some might be their work, but not for me.

[Kountzer]

As I've mentioned elsewhere I grew up here in Texas. We love sports down here, especially football. I've loved sports for as long as I can remember. I can recall being 3 or 4 years old, and being sent to adjust the TV antenna so that we could better watch the Texas longhorns football game, which was on the air.

In The little town I grew up in everyone was rabid Dallas Cowboy fans. Many are still like that there now. Today I mostly follow the Houston Texans, if any team.

Despite all that, somewhere along the way I lost a lot of interest in football, and in sports in general. I cannot remember the last time I sat down and watched a televised sporting event all the way through from start to finish. I usually watch a quarter or two, if that much, then the highlights later, if I have the chance. It doesn't matter that much to me anymore.

Maybe it is the message of this church. The 3 angels message, understood correctly, if the most relevant and important message around. What can be more important than 'the world, as you know it, is about to be radically changed, because Jesus is coming back', sooner that most of us want to believe.

And yet, I drive around, and I listen to talk radio. The radio airwaves are dominated by sports talk. I get tired of listening to music. I've gotten too old and cannot relate to most of it. I can take so much of conservative talk, or any political talk, for that matter. So, I listen to sports talk. Sports talk, or sports in general, is like a religion. You got these very intelligent sports journalists discussing in minute detail $100,000,000 million dollar contracts, and it is like life and death who gets what sports star, etc. I don't know. It's crazy. Let me get down off of my soap box.

DB

[GreatLakesGramma]

And how about hockey games, which I would put in second place as far as dangerous. There people go to see and watch fights between players and if there are none people go home and say how boring the game was.

pk

My sister loves hockey, because she likes to watch them beat each other up. She used to have a piranha too.

[phkrause]

My sister loves hockey, because she likes to watch them beat each other up. She used to have a piranha too.

LOL, that's funny.

pk

[Kountzer]

Really the human body is not designed to deal with the stress and rigors of pro sports, any sport. I've heard Doctors and medical experts say this. The truth of this is evident by the number of injuries that happen. The ligaments in the knee was not designed to deal with any of the main three sports, football, basketball, and baseball. And I like sports.

[doug yowell]

As I've mentioned elsewhere I grew up here in Texas. We love sports down here, especially football. I've loved sports for as long as I can remember. I can recall being 3 or 4 years old, and being sent to adjust the TV antenna so that we could better watch the Texas longhorns football game, which was on the air.

In The little town I grew up in everyone was rabid Dallas Cowboy fans. Many are still like that there now. Today I mostly follow the Houston Texans, if any team.

Despite all that, somewhere along the way I lost a lot of interest in football, and in sports in general. I cannot remember the last time I sat down and watched a televised sporting event all the way through from start to finish. I usually watch a quarter or two, if that much, then the highlights later, if I have the chance. It doesn't matter that much to me anymore.

Maybe it is the message of this church. The 3 angels message, understood correctly, if the most relevant and important message around. What can be more important than 'the world, as you know it, is about to be radically changed, because Jesus is coming back', sooner that most of us want to believe.

And yet, I drive around, and I listen to talk radio. The radio airwaves are dominated by sports talk. I get tired of listening to music. I've gotten too old and cannot relate to most of it. I can take so much of conservative talk, or any political talk, for that matter. So, I listen to sports talk. Sports talk, or sports in general, is like a religion. You got these very intelligent sports journalists discussing in minute detail $100,000,000 million dollar contracts, and it is like life and death who gets what sports star, etc. I don't know. It's crazy. Let me get down off of my soap box.

DB

So,I hear you saying that sports has become a distraction from the mundane and sometimes harsh realities of life,akin to a religious experience or even a drug. And this despite it's overall meaninglessness. I've driven that soapbox.

[Dr. Rich]

K--, you wrote: "The 3 angels message, understood correctly, if the most relevant and important message around." WHAT? Are you telling me that someone actually understands 'correctly' the 3 angels message(s) when they have not even been given yet? Are you telling me that 'the hour of His judgment has come'? Please tell me how long is this 'hour'?

And please tell me correctly who this 'beast' is that the third angel is talking about?

When these angels do their shouting, the world will not be like it is today. I would suggest doing more study of what Jesus gave John to write in Revelation rather that studying the words of people who are long dead. After all, there was a good reason why God told Daniel that only the wise who are living during the last generation will understand--but none of the wicked will understand. To understand correctly, as you said, one must be among the wise which are the 144 thousand who are now alive.