15 Baptisms

[Dr. Shane]

Tonight is the last night of this year's evangelistic campaign at our church. 15 of the attendees have made a decision for baptism. The baptismal service will be this evening at 6:00pm.

Let me share one story. Three years ago a little girl came to our church's VBS program. From that experience she met a piano teacher at our church and started piano lessons. The girl and her mother formed a friendship with this piano teacher. The piano teacher invited them to the campaign and tonight both the girl and her mother are joining the Adventist movement.

How about another little story? The evangelist shared with me that last year there were 45 baptisms into the Adventist church as a result of the 3ABN station there.

[abelisle]

Baptisms and people giving their life to Christ is good news.

But in my lifetime as an Adventist, I've seen far too many of these baptisms not last even one year in our church. Has anyone done any demographic studies in the NAD of what the percentages of new baptisms who stay or leave the church?

Alex

[Dr. Shane]

Yes, many studies have been done on that.

Study: Adventists Score High in Membership Retention

Quote:

Roughly sixty percent of Americans reared in what it defined as the “Adventist family” of churches, a grouping of Protestants dominated by the Seventh-day Adventist, remain in that family as adults, a landmark survey released February 25...

The study report also showed that, "of all Protestant families, Baptists, Adventists, and Lutherans have the highest retention rates."

...the report indicated, “the group that has experienced the greatest net loss by far is the Catholic Church. Overall, 31.4 percent of U.S. adults say that they were raised Catholic. Today, however, only 23.9 percent of adults identify with the Catholic Church, a net loss of 7.5 percentage points.”

Adventist education – believed to be one of the largest parochial school systems in the world – plays a part in helping young people remain in the faith, said Debra Brill, vice president for ministries of the church’s North American Division.

“Adventists place historic priority on quality religious training for children in a systemic curriculum that spans birth through higher education,” Brill said. “This tradition fosters a culture that engages many parents and children in a lifelong affiliation with the [seventh-day Adventist] Church.”

...the “potential bad news is the clear evidence of a dropout problem. The 2001 ARIS study found that 73-percent of those reared in the Adventist Church stayed in and that has dropped to 60-percent. The tendency of new generations of Adventists to not bond with our denomination is accelerating.”

One thing our church does, which I think is effective, is that we give new families joining the church a satellite system so they have Adventist television in the home.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Shane, that article is only addressing retention of persons raised in the church. There's nothing there about retention of converts brought in by evangelistic meetings.

[Dr. Shane]

The two are related. Converts, of course, are more likely to stay in the church as they made a conscious decision to join the church. Those raised in the church are in the church because of the decision their parents made.

[GreatLakesGramma]

I think some others would disagree with you. Converts brought into the church by evangelistic meetings tend to leave if they don't quickly form friendships in the church. And that depends on the willingness of existing members to go out of their way to befriend them. In some churches that doesn't happen very often.

[Dr. Shane]

There are always people that will disagree. However studies show over and over that converts are more likely to stay in a religious organization than those born into it. That is common knowledge.

[Dr. Shane]

Keeping Members A Challenge for LDS

Quote:

Today, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has more than 12 million members on its rolls, more than doubling its numbers in the past quarter-century. But since 1990, other faiths - Seventh-day Adventists, Assemblies of God and Pentecostal groups - have grown much faster and in more places around the globe...

"It is a matter of grave concern that the areas with the most rapid numerical membership increase, Latin America and the Philippines, are also the areas with extremely low convert retention," says Stewart, a California physician. "Many other groups, including the Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses, have consistently achieved excellent convert retention rates in those cultures and societies. Latter-day Saints lose 70 to 80 percent of their converts, while Adventists retain 70 to 80 percent of theirs."

[phkrause]

I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with anyone, just making a general statement. When we had evangelistic meetings for the Jewish people in NYC, we got quite a number baptized, but I think only one couple stayed more than a year. When we had other converts, like non-Jews most if not all stayed with the church. Eventually when the original Jewish pastors all retired and left, and the church moved back up to da Bronx there were no more Jewish members and eventually the church was no more, basically after all the original members had gotten older and moved away. What was left went to different churches in the surrounding area's.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

I was wrong. We baptized 17 tonight but two were children of members so they really were not converts.

I don't know much about Jewish converts. Obviously if a church is cold it is going to have problems keeping members regardless who they are or how they come in. We give satellite dishes to the new members and pair them up with spiritual mentors. Our church is very warm. We have pot luck three Sabbaths each month, mid-week prayer meeting, vespers, AY and Patherfinders.

[TWNolan]

AY???

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

One thing our church does, which I think is effective, is that we give new families joining the church a satellite system so they have Adventist television in the home.

How can your church afford to give each new member a new satellite system????? And does your church then pay the monthly charges?

I'm not criticizing the idea, I'm in awe that a church could do that...

[Woody]

There are no monthy charges for having Adventist television in your home. That would be like charging for services on Sabbath.

No Pam and dgrimm ... the only expense is getting the Satellite System.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

So how do you get satellite TV without paying a monthly charge????

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

But there would be an installation charge too. And who would do the installation? All these companies around, like DirectTV want you to buy their product - they don't come out just to do an installation of a free channel satellite dish.

[nuff sed]

GlorystarTV,.com provides the equipment to receive Hope Channel,3ABN, LLBN and various other religious channels.

The onetime equipment fee is $199.95 . You would then have various choices..1. Install it yourself (not recommended) 2. Find a local installer. 3. Have them advise you as to the the nearest installer who is listed with them. 'nuff sed

[Woody]

So how do you get satellite TV without paying a monthly charge????

Just buy the equipment as 'nuff sed has outlined. I've had it for years and never paid a dime of any monthly fees.

Last I checked there were around a hundred different channels that you get for your free subscription. !!!

I couldn't tell you for sure since I watch mostly just the SDA ones.

Enjoy ...

[GreatLakesGramma]

What satellite dish is it that you get that many channels with?

[phkrause]

What satellite dish is it that you get that many channels with?

I believe its gloystar, as gladussee mentioned. Not sure but I know that you can purchase directly from 3ABN and get quite a few stations. Also from HopeTV you can purchase and get even more than from 3ABN but am not sure.

pk

[Dr. Shane]

Yes, it is GloryStar. There are about three of us in our church that do the install. Although GloryStar sells the system with install included for extra money or can refer a person to an installer in their local area.

How can the church afford it? The average evangelistic campaign cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K - $20K. The average number of people getting baptize are 5 to 10. That is anywhere from $2K - $4K being spent per baptism. What is an extra $200?

[Woody]

Yes GLG ... as the others have outlined ... that would be GloryStar.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Yes, it is GloryStar. There are about three of us in our church that do the install. Although GloryStar sells the system with install included for extra money or can refer a person to an installer in their local area.

How can the church afford it? The average evangelistic campaign cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $10K - $20K. The average number of people getting baptize are 5 to 10. That is anywhere from $2K - $4K being spent per baptism. What is an extra $200?

Sorry to ask about the cost, Shane. But when a person has very little to eat they tend to think about food instead of TV. I wasn't trying to say your church was wrong in providing the satellite TV.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Your church must be a relatively large one, Shane. My husband and I prefer small ones.

[phkrause]

I find that the smaller churches seem to do more of this than the larger ones.

pk