legalists

[Stan]

Every notice that some go from being a conservative legalist to a liberal legalist?

[olger]

Good point. Morris Venden called my attention to this in 1992.

g

[Woody]

So ... would you say it's a good thing to label certain peoples 'legalists' of ANY flavor? Hmmmm.

[karl]

Every notice that some go from being a conservative legalist to a liberal legalist?

Give us an example of a liberal legalist's belief system.

[teresaq]

Every notice that some go from being a conservative legalist to a liberal legalist?

yes,

quite funny, actually. lol

[karl]

Every notice that some go from being a conservative legalist to a liberal legalist?

Give us an example of a liberal legalist's belief system.

[olger]

Some people derive their security of salvation by the standards of the church that they uphold. Others, recoil away from that approach and derive their security of salvation by the standards that they discard. Both legalists.

Illustration. A person takes up dancing, drinking, jewelry, in order to prove that they are not a "legalist". Their focus is still upon the standards of the church not Jesus.

A much needed corrective is to remember that obedience is not legalism. We all need to be the kind of people who obey God out of their love.

oG

[karl]

Illustration. A person takes up dancing, drinking, jewelry, in order to prove that they are not a "legalist". Their focus is still upon the standards of the church not Jesus.

A much needed corrective is to remember that obedience is not legalism. We all need to be the kind of people who obey God out of their love.

oG

I don't see how trying to not be a legalist makes you a liberal legalist.

I agree very much with your second statement above. That was brought out very clearly in the second half of the lesson for this week. "To some people, obedience is inconsistent with righteousness by faith.... Righteousness is right doing... Our characters are revealed by what we do."

[olger]

Hi Karl.

It's the motive that is problematic, the focus of both is on standards instead of Christ.

One side of the coin focus' on standards that they uphold, the other side focus' on the standards that they jettison. Neither are focusing on the Lord Jesus and yielding themselves to Him through love.

[Robert]

obedience is not legalism

What's obedience?

[olger]

"True obedience is the outworking of a principle within. It springs from the love of righteousness, the love of the law of God. The essence of all righteousness is loyalty to our Redeemer. This will lead us to do right because it is right--because right doing is pleasing to God."

"Obedience is the highest dictate of reason as well as of conscience" {AA 506.2}.

"Willing Obedience Is the Test of Conversion.-- Shall we not teach our children that willing obedience to the will of God proves whether those claiming to be Christians are Christians indeed? The Lord means every word He says" {CG 489.3}.

May your life be filled true obedience,

gcw

(Ps. Please dont use this good topic to launch yet another foray into Agricolan antinomianism).

[Robert]

"True obedience is the outworking of a principle within. It springs from the love of righteousness, the love of the law of God."

First of all I ask you what obedience is....Why did you give me EGW's views....?

Secondly I didn't get an answer.

The man of Romans 7 delight in God's law according to the inward man....So just because your heart is in harmony with God's law doesn't mean you'll be obedient to the law.

So, what is obedience?

[olger]

Please don't use this good topic to launch yet another foray into Agricolan antinomianism,

regards,

oG

[Robert]

The topic is legalists.... So you need to get

[karl]

Hi Karl.

It's the motive that is problematic, the focus of both is on standards instead of Christ.

One side of the coin focus' on standards that they uphold, the other side focus' on the standards that they jettison. Neither are focusing on the Lord Jesus and yielding themselves to Him through love.

OK, I think I'm catching on. So some people believe they are saved by NOT keeping the commandments? I understand that we can twist Paul to say that keeping the commandments has nothing to do with salvation, but how can we get from "no merit" to preaching that there IS salvific merit in NOT keeping the commandments?

I would think that to be too much of a stretch even for a disgruntled Adventist.

[Robert]

So some people believe they are saved by NOT keeping the commandments?

The Pharisees were full time law keepers, but Jesus said:

"I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."