Becoming adventist

[Jonathon]

Hello..I just signed on as a new member this morning, hoping this is an active adventist website as my wife and I would like to get help with our questions. I am not even sure if I am posting in the right place.

Just a brief background. We do not attend church but want to. We were both raised in either non/denom or pentecostal churches but have been studying what adventists believe and believe now that it is as close to being biblical as we can find, as far as denominational beliefs go.

Anyway, we are the kind of people who don't want to sit on the fence but either want to be all in or all out. Here is the problem. My wife's job is perfect in that she is off work for the entire sabbath. On the other hand, my job requires me to work odd hours, seven days on, seven days off. I work in a group home with developmentally disabled adults and have done this for the past 18 years. Every other weekend I must go in at 4pm on a Friday afternoon and stay right through til Monday morning at 8 am. My wife and I have become financially responsible and have eliminated our debt with the exception of our mortgage and one small car loan, but my income is crucial for us to keep our heads above water. Must I quit my job for us to be baptized and become members of the church? Can I do these hours as an adventist? We need direction in this mater. Thanks in advance for your help.

[karl]

Caring for the sick (or disabled) has to be done 24/7/365. I have to work Sabbaths from time to time in the ER. I try not to, but it is not fair to always saddle others with these hours just because I'm Adventist.

What I have done, for the past twenty-five years, was make up my mind that any money I made on the Sabbath would go to a special cause of Christ - in addition to my regular giving. This made the Sabbath a special time to me, even though I was at work. I was earning money for missions or whatever project.

I started this when I had a private clinic in Wrightwood, CA (nearest other doctor thirty-five miles away.) Instead of charging people on Sabbath for calling me in to the office, I handed out a flyer telling them I was Adventist and that this was my day of rest, so there was no charge. I requested that they do something helpful for others as payment to me. I expected to have the phone ring off the hook as soon as people knew Sabbaths and Friday nights were free and I was willing for this to happen as a witness, but the opposite happened. My Sabbath calls went to almost zero and stayed there.

[Jonathon]

I never would have thought of that.

Now..my wife and I don't want to be steeped in legalism about the sabbath, because that would drive us nuts, but we do want to use common sense. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for their legalism, as an example, not eating eggs that were laid on the sabbath. We are free in Christ but not free to break His laws.

I guess we are having difficulty defining what is and isn't acceptable to do on the sabbath. Is turning on a gas stove as wrong as lighting a fire? What exactly is considered work? How does a new adventist define these things without going crazy? We want to please God by doing His will without all of our energy and focus being on rules.

I have heard that some adventists won't even shave on the sabbath...and if that is true, how can someone new like me even know where to begin?

All we know is that we want to do the will of God and we are very sincere people.

[karl]

I have heard that some adventists won't even shave on the sabbath...and if that is true, how can someone new like me even know where to begin?

All we know is that we want to do the will of God and we are very sincere people.

That's a new one on me. No shaving. Actually sounds good. Wonder if my wife would go for it?

The Sabbath was made for man. God intended it to be a lessening of our burdens, not an increased burden. It is a special time to increase our love for Him and for our fellow man. Sounds to me like your work for the developmentally disabled is something Adventists would volunteer to do on Sabbath afternoon just like we do in hospitals and nursing homes.

[Jonathon]

Thanks Karl..for your help. We love your idea of taking income earned on sabbath and placing it in missions or some other work that will benefit the good news of Christ getting out there in our community. There are many people in our community that are down and out and could use a "cup of cold water" in Jesus name.

[Liz]

I think Karl gave you some good advice. I just wanted to jump in and welcome you to the boards Jonathon, so Hi and Welcome <waving>.

[TWNolan]

Now..my wife and I don't want to be steeped in legalism about the sabbath, because that would drive us nuts, but we do want to use common sense. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for their legalism, as an example, not eating eggs that were laid on the sabbath. We are free in Christ but not free to break His laws.

[Woody]

While I personally agree with all that has been said so far ... I would not take the word of any of us. Study and Pray ... invite the Holy Spirit to impress you.

What will happen is that your Sabbath will evolve one way or another. We call it growth. But there are no set rules. The Jews had those and we know what Jesus thought of that. But, there are principles. The applications will vary as much as each of us vary. But, praise God for that. I would not want to be a robot with a set of Sabbath rules. I make my own personal rules ... which is fine ... but I would not want to impose that on anyone else.

It needs to be a personal conviction.

Blessings with your exploration of the Sabbath.

[abelisle]

Take karl's advice.

It's very sound and more importantly it's Biblical. If in doubt, look to the Bible and pray about your concerns. If both of you truly love Christ, He will point you in the right direction.

Remember - Christ loves you no matter what you decide. It's the sin He dislikes, especially if you know something is wrong and do it anyway.

Alex

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Don't take anyone's advice on this forum. Read the Bible and pray.

[phkrause]

Hello..I just signed on as a new member this morning, hoping this is an active adventist website as my wife and I would like to get help with our questions. I am not even sure if I am posting in the right place.

Just a brief background. We do not attend church but want to. We were both raised in either non/denom or pentecostal churches but have been studying what adventists believe and believe now that it is as close to being biblical as we can find, as far as denominational beliefs go.

Anyway, we are the kind of people who don't want to sit on the fence but either want to be all in or all out. Here is the problem. My wife's job is perfect in that she is off work for the entire sabbath. On the other hand, my job requires me to work odd hours, seven days on, seven days off. I work in a group home with developmentally disabled adults and have done this for the past 18 years. Every other weekend I must go in at 4pm on a Friday afternoon and stay right through til Monday morning at 8 am. My wife and I have become financially responsible and have eliminated our debt with the exception of our mortgage and one small car loan, but my income is crucial for us to keep our heads above water. Must I quit my job for us to be baptized and become members of the church? Can I do these hours as an adventist? We need direction in this mater. Thanks in advance for your help.

Welcome Jonathon and your better half.

I see you've gotten some very good advice from Karl, Woody and rudywoofs, I don't think I could add anything to what they said other than just allow the Holy Spirit to come in to your lives and study for yourself the Bible.

pk

[Dr. Rich]

While I agree with Pam, many people have read the bible and prayed about this and there still are many different opinions about what the fourth commandment means for them. I have attended SDA churches all over the US and the Caribbean and it seems that almost everyone has their own opinion on what they can and can't do.

I was a police officer and had to work on Sabbath just as Doctors have to do, and I have come to realize that our world today is much different then it was at the time of Moses. If some equipment stops just for one day it may upset an entire industry. The gas you use to drive your car was made from oil and they could not stop this process for the Sabbath--could they?

Here is the thing--the Sabbath was made for man and the longer I live the more I enjoy it. The word 'holy' is special too in that the sabbath was meant to be set apart from the rest of the days that one works for a 'living'.

While I play golf with friends and family on Sabbaths, this is not what others would do, now would they even listen to a radio or watch TV, because others have blasted their belief upon others in such a way as to force people to feel guilty for doing anything for yourself.

I could give tales of what others do around the world, but you would laugh your head off for all of the ridiculous things they do and not do in order to make them feel righteous to others. God wanted people to remember He was their Creator and gave us a day to not feel guilty for not working so that we could enjoy it with the family and friends. Enjoy!

Dr. Rich (SDA)

[Dr. Shane]

There are many industries that must work seven days a week. Oil workers on off-shore rigs work seven days on and seven days off. It takes so long to get operations up and going they can't stop the process unless under the threat of a hurricane - and that results in a spike in gas prices. Mass transportation has to run. Public utilities have to run. The phone companies have to work. I too like the idea of donating the money made on the Sabbath to a ministry. If one lives on a written budget they should be able to budget that and it should become a blessing rather than a burden.

There are many jobs where one does not have to work on Sabbath so I think we need to be careful not to justify working when we really don't need to. I work in construction. With few exceptions, Sabbath work should never be required. Most retail jobs do not need to be done on the Sabbath. Most restaurant jobs don't need to be done on the Sabbath. A lot of service jobs like mechanics, barbers, dry cleaning, cable/satellite repair, etc. do not need to be done on the Sabbath.

In the Adventist church today, Sabbath-keeping is mostly left up to the individual members. Sermons are preached on it, as they should be. I have never heard of an Adventist member in North America being disciplined for Sabbath-breaking in the past 20 years I have been actively part of the church.

[Kountzer]

The agency I work for has be thinking about opening up on saturdays. I refuse to work on that day. They like to control just about every aspect of your life. Only God needs that much control.

[Dr. Shane]

If it is a government agency, they have to give you Sabbath off. Most private companies have to give Sabbath off due to the Civil Rights Act of 1965. For Jonathon's sake, I think we need to be crystal clear. There is no controversy over those in the medical field working on Sabbath. The Adventist church has never taught it is wrong for medical workers to work on the Sabbath. The Adventist church owns and operates many hospitals and nursing homes and they don't shut down on the Sabbath.

Now, these other lines of work like policemen and utility plant workers are more controversial but I have never heard of a church actually disciplining a member for working on the Sabbath if they are in the line of work that cannot stop for the Sabbath day.

[Dr. Rich]

Yep, if it's gotta be done, then it's gotta be done.

[Woody]

What about politics. I've known church member who were into politics and because of their position ... had to attend political events on Sabbath.

btw ... they were disciplined.

[Dr. Rich]

WHAT? Since all politicians are liars by the definition of their job, then what difference would it be to them if they kept the 4th commandment? (Or am I mistaken here?) (I suppose the same could be said about attorneys, car salesmen, real estate salesmen--and fishermen. Boy, did I open a can of snakes!)

[Dr. Shane]

I have attended political events on the Sabbath and have not been disciplined.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I have attended political events on the Sabbath and have not been disciplined.

would you go to the Republican or Demoncratic National conventions on the Sabbath? Those are political events.

[Woody]

I have attended political events on the Sabbath and have not been disciplined.

Boy. Someone is slack concerning their duties.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

I have attended political events on the Sabbath and have not been disciplined.

would you go to the Republican or Demoncratic National conventions on the Sabbath? Those are political events.

Well I didn't go to the national conventions but I have went to both a Republican and a Democratic convention on the Sabbath. In fact, I was able to attend the Democratic county convention where we sent our delegates off to nominate Barak Hussien Obama to become the very first ever black (and some say socialist) President.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

my sympathies..

[Overaged]

Hello..I just signed on as a new member this morning, hoping this is an active adventist website as my wife and I would like to get help with our questions. I am not even sure if I am posting in the right place.

Just a brief background. We do not attend church but want to. We were both raised in either non/denom or pentecostal churches but have been studying what adventists believe and believe now that it is as close to being biblical as we can find, as far as denominational beliefs go.

Anyway, we are the kind of people who don't want to sit on the fence but either want to be all in or all out. Here is the problem. My wife's job is perfect in that she is off work for the entire sabbath. On the other hand, my job requires me to work odd hours, seven days on, seven days off. I work in a group home with developmentally disabled adults and have done this for the past 18 years. Every other weekend I must go in at 4pm on a Friday afternoon and stay right through til Monday morning at 8 am. My wife and I have become financially responsible and have eliminated our debt with the exception of our mortgage and one small car loan, but my income is crucial for us to keep our heads above water. Must I quit my job for us to be baptized and become members of the church? Can I do these hours as an adventist? We need direction in this mater. Thanks in advance for your help.

Howdy Jonathon. I think that is really interesting and significant that you & your wife have just been studying on your own, and reached the conclusions you have. What a great testimony!

I can certainly understand your questions too; for they are honest questions that many have asked. In my expereince; I have seen a wide range of answers for the questions you ask, and for the points you make. The fact that you will see a range of answers from one end of the pole to the other means only that God must address you personally on these kinds of issues. While it may seem that you will be in trouble with God for not doing things right on Sabbath, it has to be put into perspective. For example, there are things I do now on Sabbath, that I would not have done years ago; and there are things that I don't do now, but that I used to do.

Some people I have seen just take health care jobs so they can work anyways on the Sabbath because healthcare related things are "OK" to do on Sabbath. I believe this is just as legalistic as someone who cannot eat eggs laid by a hen on Sabbath.

Every day; including Sabbath; we have to go where God leads us, and do what God tells us. Some of the things I do now on Sabbath are really just a matter of respect for others in my area, who prefer to "keep Sabbath" that way; yet, some of the things I won't consider doing on Sabbath are also a matter of respect for the customs and preferences of others around me. So it is in this sort of context that Sabbath has become a day where I no longer ask: "What shall I NOT DO;" but what shall I do. It is a day filled with what I can do; rather than what I can't do.

When you think about it; some Pastors, for example, work harder on the Sabbath than any other day! And likewise; Sabbath should actually be our busiest day; for it is in blessing others, that we too are blessed, on the special day that God has blessed. This is why Jesus said "the Sabbath was made for man..."

While I have some questions about the practice of some who donate money made on Sabbath to charity, I fully respect those who choose to do so. I was in health care for 14 years, and it ocurred to me that maybe that is unrealistic to look at God this way, as somehow requiring this kind of cash settlement every week from me just because I work in health care. I saw this as some kind of penalty, where I could only get paid for 4 work days, as opposed to others who would get five work days out of the week. I tell you this - not to mix you up, but just to illustrate that there are lots of different perspectives and traditions for Sabbath-keeping; and that as fellow Adventists, we could all likely be a little more respectful to those who do not do everything like us without "breaking the Sabbath" ourselves.

[John317]

...Here is the problem. My wife's job is perfect in that she is off work for the entire sabbath. On the other hand, my job requires me to work odd hours, seven days on, seven days off. I work in a group home with developmentally disabled adults and have done this for the past 18 years. Every other weekend I must go in at 4pm on a Friday afternoon and stay right through til Monday morning at 8 am. My wife and I have become financially responsible and have eliminated our debt with the exception of our mortgage and one small car loan, but my income is crucial for us to keep our heads above water. Must I quit my job for us to be baptized and become members of the church? Can I do these hours as an adventist? We need direction in this mater. Thanks in advance for your help.

Welcome to the forum, Jonathon. Hope you keep coming back and get a real blessing.

About your job-- my advice is don't quit it now. Let the Lord lead you in this. Pray that if He wants you to stop this work, He will bring conviction to you and that He will lead you in finding other work. For one thing, you are doing the kind of work that Jesus did on the Sabbath-- I mean helping needy people. If you feel that you should give the money to the church or to the gospel, you could do that. Another thing you might consider is to ask if you can switch days with others who want their Sundays off to go to church. That's often a possibility.

I used to do work similar to yours, only working with juvenile delinquents and gang members. I worked on Sabbath until I became convicted that God wanted me to stop doing it, then I wrote to the director that I couldn't work on Sabbath, and I explained from the Bible, and they gave me Sabbaths off from then on.

Good luck and God bless in your work and your decision-making.