Is it fair that ...

[Woody]

Adam and Eve were created perfect without a desire to sin. Yet, because they failed ... I am expected to rise above it and the thousands of years of human degradation. I was born a sinner with a strong desire to sin. And I'm suppose to even desire perfection?

Adam and Eve had daily personal physical contact with God. I am expected to not see yet believe and to use His power perfectly to vindicate Him.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

[olger]

"There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond your strength; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to stand up under it."

God has never held it against us for being born on the wrong planet. He has faithfully provided all help in time of need. Amen!

I think we need Him daily,

oG

[Woody]

Quote:

I think we need Him daily

This sinner can certainly say Amen to that.

[Guest]

Me too. AMEN!

[Musicman1228]

Woody,

Take heart, Adam and Eve would not have failed the test in the garden had they been created righteous. When you are fully righteous (as is Jesus Christ) you do not have the propensity to sin, even though you have to ability to sin. God put the "Tree of the Learning of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" in the Garden of Eden and required obedience to the instruction not to eat of it because He needed Adam and Eve to CHOOSE to be obedient, to CHOOSE to be righteous. The freedom to choice is the most important thing God ever created. We have exactly the same choice today as did Adam and Eve in the Garden, that is, to obey or not. When our responses to our daily choices reflect consistent obedience by listening only to the Holy Spirit is when we will be sealed in righteousness, gain the complete indwelling of the Holy Spirit (being born again) and finally loose our propensity to sin. At that moment we will truly be like Jesus Christ.

[Woody]

Woody,

When our responses to our daily choices reflect consistent obedience by listening only to the Holy Spirit is when we will be sealed in righteousness, gain the complete indwelling of the Holy Spirit (being born again) and finally loose our propensity to sin. At that moment we will truly be like Jesus Christ.

It ain't goin' to happen in my lifetime.

[phkrause]

Adam and Eve were created perfect without a desire to sin. Yet, because they failed ... I am expected to rise above it and the thousands of years of human degradation. I was born a sinner with a strong desire to sin. And I'm suppose to even desire perfection?

Adam and Eve had daily personal physical contact with God. I am expected to not see yet believe and to use His power perfectly to vindicate Him.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Yes Woody, and even though they walked and talked with there creator, they still sinned.

pk

[Kevin H]

Blessed is he who has not seen but believes.

Jesus is doing what he can to help us to be settled in the truth so that sin will not rise again.

Adam and Eve found fault with Paridise, while Jesus and the thief were able to find paridise on the cross.

[Musicman1228]

Blessed is he who has not seen but believes.

Jesus is doing what he can to help us to be settled in the truth so that sin will not rise again.

Adam and Eve found fault with Paridise, while Jesus and the thief were able to find paridise on the cross.

That story of the thief asking for forgiveness while hanging on the cross was told by Luke who was not there at the crucifixion. The other two gospels that have this account say that BOTH thieves cursed Jesus, and these were eyewitness accounts.

[Dr. Rich]

Kevin wrote: "Blessed is he who has not seen but believes." Hey Kevin, you left out the most important part of this and it can be found in John 17:19-26 where Jesus is praying for unity through the words of His eyewitness disciples, that those who read THEIR words will believe in these words and obey them.

Yes, Kevin, there are many stories from Luke's account that do not agree with the eyewitness' words. I choose to follow and build my foundation from the words written down by the eyewitnesses. Most people have never researched into how and who wrote what and how it got placed into the New Testament, blindly believing that since it is in the bible that it must be true. I invite you to do your own research on this and see what you find.

[Guest]

That story of the thief asking for forgiveness while hanging on the cross was told by Luke who was not there at the crucifixion. The other two gospels that have this account say that BOTH thieves cursed Jesus, and these were eyewitness accounts

[Overaged]

When our responses to our daily choices reflect consistent obedience by listening only to the Holy Spirit is when we will be sealed in righteousness, gain the complete indwelling of the Holy Spirit (being born again) and finally loose our propensity to sin. At that moment we will truly be like Jesus Christ.

You just let us all know when you are like this, and we'll all copy you. Then we won't need Jesus will we?

[Overaged]

Kevin wrote: "Blessed is he who has not seen but believes." Hey Kevin, you left out the most important part of this and it can be found in John 17:19-26 where Jesus is praying for unity through the words of His eyewitness disciples, that those who read THEIR words will believe in these words and obey them.

Yes, Kevin, there are many stories from Luke's account that do not agree with the eyewitness' words. I choose to follow and build my foundation from the words written down by the eyewitnesses. Most people have never researched into how and who wrote what and how it got placed into the New Testament, blindly believing that since it is in the bible that it must be true. I invite you to do your own research on this and see what you find.

You are picking at straws here in your desperation to find "fault" with the Bible.

Here is the first verse which you attack:

Joh 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

How does it contradict the following?

Joh 17:19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Joh 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Joh 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Joh 17:25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.

Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

There is no contradiction at all between these two passages when they are correctly explained and understood.

[Overaged]

Adam and Eve were created perfect without a desire to sin. Yet, because they failed ... I am expected to rise above it and the thousands of years of human degradation. I was born a sinner with a strong desire to sin. And I'm suppose to even desire perfection?

Adam and Eve had daily personal physical contact with God. I am expected to not see yet believe and to use His power perfectly to vindicate Him.

Doesn't seem fair to me.

Good questions. I don't know if we are to desire "perfection" or not because there are too many definitions thereof; but I do know that we are on the right track if we desire something better.

I don't see it as being we who will vindicate Christ. We do have opportunities to reflect Him. To bear witness of our experience with Him. (1 Jo 1:1-3). I mean really; how can an owly old coot like me vindicate someone like our Creator or Lord? I think Calvary took care of that for all of us. (IMHLP).

[Dr. Rich]

Thanks Overaged. Good words there my friend!

[Overaged]

Thanks Overaged. Good words there my friend!

I'm waiting for someone to ask what (IMHLP) stands for.

[Dr. Rich]

ok, tell us

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

in my humble limited perspective (?)

[Overaged]

in my humble limited perspective (?)

IMHLO=In My Humble Learned Opinion

[Dr. Rich]

How about "IMELO"?

[wayfinder]

There is no contradiction between those two passages, but there is between these (for starters).

Matthew 27:44 NAS

The robbers who had been crucified with Him were also insulting Him with the same words.

Mark 15:32 "Let this Christ, the King of Israel, now come down from the cross, so that we may see and believe !" Those who were crucified with Him were also insulting Him.

Luke 20:39 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ ? Save Yourself and us!"

40 But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation ?

41 "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds ; but this man has done nothing wrong."

42 And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom !"

43 And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Matthew and Peter were eyewitnesses(Mark giving Peter's account). Luke was not an eyewitness and his above text proves this. The way Luke presents the two criminals is a glowing testimony of salvation by faith alone and supports his protoge Paul's, salvation theology.