Poll: 52% of Americans Feel Obama Moving the US Towards Socialism

[bonnie]

http://stevenstraub.com/us/nytcbs-poll-52-say-obama-moving-u-s-towards-socialism

From CNS News:

A New York Times/CBS News poll found that a majority of Americans, 52 percent, think the policies of President Barack Obama are moving the United States toward socialism

Published April 14, the poll surveyed the political, racial, and social opinions of both the general pubic and self-described members of the tea party movement. It found that while tea party participants are generally more conservative than the broader population, they are also better educated and slightly more successful.

The poll found that almost the entirety of the tea party movement – 92 percent – shared the views of most Americans that Obama was turning the United States into a socialist country.

Can’t imagine why people would feel that way! November can not come soon enough, I just hope it’s not too late…

[John317]

There were people, myself included, who said (and knew), before the election, that Barak Obama is socialistic if not a socialist. It comes as no surprise to me.

Having spent several years in the socialist movement, I know a socialist when I hear and read one. Besides, look at all the people he was associated with from the time he was young. You can tell a lot about a person by the friends he keeps and the people he's around. Obama himself said this, and he's right. I don't think most Americans who voted for him looked hard and long enough. Or else they wanted a socialist as their president. In any case, they got one. He'll keep for the next two years. Then we'll see about the next 4. My own hunch is that he'll be out of there unless he can get back the Independents and Republicans who voted for him in the last election. I think he will be fortunate to keep the Democrats with him.

The only way he can win is if the economy rebounds strongly and if Americans are generally very happy with the Health Care issue. Then there's the war, but that won't matter much if the other issues are in his favor.

I always want to see a president succeed because his success is America's success. But in this case, America's true success may well only come through an end to President Obama's administration.

[bonnie]

There were people, myself included, who said (and knew), before the election, that Barak Obama is socialistic if not a socialist. It comes as no surprise to me.

Having spent several years in the socialist movement, I know a socialist when I hear and read one. Besides, look at all the people he was associated with from the time he was young. You can tell a lot about a person by the friends he keeps and the people he's around. Obama himself said this, and he's right. I don't think most Americans who voted for him looked hard and long enough. Or else they wanted a socialist as their president. In any case, they got one. He'll keep for the next two years. Then we'll see about the next 4. My own hunch is that he'll be out of there unless he can get back the Independents and Republicans who voted for him in the last election. I think he will be fortunate to keep the Democrats with him.

The only way he can win is if the economy rebounds strongly and if Americans are generally very happy with the Health Care issue. Then there's the war, but that won't matter much if the other issues are in his favor.

I always want to see a president succeed because his success is America's success. But in this case, America's true success may well only come through an end to President Obama's administration.

Those that did voice that belief were demonized and labeled racist.Most are so afraid of being labeled a racist they will turn themselves inside out to ingratiate themselves with the accusers.

America cannot succeed as a socialist country.

50% of the country paying no federal income tax and many hundreds of thousands receiving a government handout is a powerful voting block.

[Guest]

I don't think most Americans who voted for him looked hard and long enough. Or else they wanted a socialist as their president. In any case, they got one. He'll keep for the next two years. Then we'll see about the next 4.

[John317]

Quote:

bonnie:Those that did voice that belief were demonized and labeled racist.

Yes, I saw that-- not personally, but I did see it done to others.

Quote:

bonnie: Most are so afraid of being labeled a racist they will turn themselves inside out to ingratiate themselves with the accusers.

That's true. But people shouldn't allow themselves to be intimidated into saying or doing what they don't believe in just because of fear of being called a racist. That's a tool used by some people to manipulate others into doing what they want. It's not any more right than calling someone the n-word or gay-bashing. There is true racism, and it cheapens the real thing when people loosely throw around the word "racism."

Personally I get as angry as anyone when there's true racism shown, because I see racism shown toward my Mexican-American daughters from time to time as well as my sister's little African-American daughter. But if anyone ever wanted to say I'm a racist, it wouldn't matter a bit to me because in my heart and in my mind, I know that I love all races the same, and that is all that counts to me. As an SDA I have learned that it's not what the world calls you that counts-- it's what God thinks of you. What's important is how we treat others in our personal life, not what our political ideoglogy is. How do we treat others who don't look like us or think like us? That's the real question.

Quote:

Bonnie: America cannot succeed as a socialist country.

I'm 100% in agreement there. I believe if we go that route, we'd be betraying everything this country has stood for since its foundation. I honestly don't understand how a man with American blood running through his veins and who knows our history and knows the hearts of Americans can take this country down the socialist road. It seems to me this would have to be done by someone who is not truly American at heart. I think if Obama spent all of his early years here, he wouldn't say and do many of the things he does. America is really AN IDEA, not a place, and that idea is FREEDOM.

Quote:

Bonnie: 50% of the country paying no federal income tax and many hundreds of thousands receiving a government handout is a powerful voting block.

That's true.

Reminds me of something I read, which was that when the people learn that they can vote themselves a big fat pay check, they will lose their freedom and America will cease to be a great Republic.

When people's motives for voting are primarily one of gaining money-- rather than keeping America free and great-- that's the end to integrity and love of country.

I'd rather be a wandering hobo without a dime to my name and free as the wind to go and come as I like than be the slave of any government. America the land of the free-- not the land of lost opportunity!!

[Dr. Shane]

it seems like more and more people are

leaving the OBAMA crowd for the other side

I would leave Obama if there was a better alternative but I am not leaving him for a bunch of cold-hearted, hypocritical, partisan, whiners.

[Dr. Shane]

50% of the country paying no federal income tax...

Any idea how many people in other countries pay federal income tax to their countries? In Mexico the number not paying federal income tax is far greater than 50%. The poor pay other taxes. How many Americans pay gasoline tax? How many pay telecommunications tax? How many pay Social Security tax? The burden of the Social Security tax rests on the middle class. If the income cap was lifted Social Security wouldn't be broke.

It is pretty hard for me to feel sorry for a bunch of rich guys that have to pay taxes. We all pay the same amount of taxes for the income we earn. I pay the same on my first $20,000 as the waitress pays on her first $20,000 as Bill Gates pays on his first $20,000. Bill Gates doesn't pay any more on his first $50,000 of annual income than I pay on my first $50,000 of annual income. The tax code is fair as fair can be. If the rich don't want to pay so many taxes, they can give everything to charity that they don't want to pay taxes on.

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: dgrimm60

it seems like more and more people are

leaving the OBAMA crowd for the other side

I would leave Obama if there was a better alternative but I am not leaving him for a bunch of cold-hearted, hypocritical, partisan, whiners.

Not sure who does the whining.Obama has and does do his share.

Personally I don't care whether you leave him or not.

This is about the ideology of the president of US.

[bonnie]

Quote:

Any idea how many people in other countries pay federal income tax to their countries? In Mexico the number not paying federal income tax is far greater than 50%. The poor pay other taxes. How many Americans pay gasoline tax? How many pay telecommunications tax? How many pay Social Security tax? The burden of the Social Security tax rests on the middle class. If the income cap was lifted Social Security wouldn't be broke.

What does 50% in the US that don't have to do with what Mexico pays? I only referred to federal income tax.

Quote:

It is pretty hard for me to feel sorry for a bunch of rich guys that have to pay taxes. We all pay the same amount of taxes for the income we earn. I pay the same on my first $20,000 as the waitress pays on her first $20,000 as Bill Gates pays on his first $20,000. Bill Gates doesn't pay any more on his first $50,000 of annual income than I pay on my first $50,000 of annual income. The tax code is fair as fair can be. If the rich don't want to pay so many taxes, they can give everything to charity that they don't want to pay taxes on.

Didn't ask you to feel sorry for anyone. They already give more than liberal's of their time and money.

Many taxes are on the way.

[Dr. Shane]

Didn't ask you to feel sorry for anyone.

Oh, I hear Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity whine all the time. It almost makes me want to get out the fiddle and some cheese. Those poor rich folks having to carry such a heavy burden of taxes. It just isn't fair. The lower classes should have to pay more. They don't need to be eating anything more than beans and rice anyway. If every poor man would just eat beans and rice and pay more taxes, maybe the rich people wouldn't have to carry such a heavy load. Poor me, poor me, pour me another shot of whiskey so I can drown my sorrow.

[karl]

Oh, I hear Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity whine all the time. It almost makes me want to get out the fiddle and some cheese. Those poor rich folks having to carry such a heavy burden of taxes. It just isn't fair. The lower classes should have to pay more.

The government should have to spend less.

The poor would have much more opportunity if the deck were not stacked against them by minimum wage, all kinds of government regulations and paperwork, unions, high taxes on their prospective employers, and the myriad of other do-gooder things that make it so difficult for business to hire them. The agents that the government sends to harass businessmen and to eat out their substance are the enemies of the poor simply by the price tag of their existence.

"He [King George} has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance."

[karl]

Quote:

bonnie: America cannot succeed as a socialist country.

I'm 100% in agreement there. I believe if we go that route, we'd be betraying everything this country has stood for since its foundation. ... I think if Obama spent all of his early years here, he wouldn't say and do many of the things he does. America is really AN IDEA, not a place, and that idea is FREEDOM.

The entire planet is becoming destabilized by America's slide into socialism. This whole world needs us to reverse this trend and to maintain the light of freedom. The IDEA of FREEDOM is a strong force. Freedoms enjoyed by US citizens are motivation for the citizens of other countries to demand similar treatment from their governments.

An MD who worked for Kaiser figured it out. He told me twenty years ago, "I need you guys in private practice to make $115K per year so that Kaiser will pay me $90K."

[bonnie]

Quote:

Oh, I hear Limbaugh, Beck and Hannity whine all the time. It almost makes me want to get out the fiddle and some cheese.

Then you are not listening very closely.But there are those like yourself that think those you perceive as having to much should be brought down to size.Being so shortsighted harms they very ones you profess to claim to care so much for.

As more and more taxes are levied on "the evil rich" the less opportunity for those that are poor and middle class.

Remember when the luxury boats,yachts etc were targeted. Those filthy rich could afford to pay more taxes. Except the industry almost went belly up and it hurt the employee's of that business.

With what the small business man is facing in new taxes and Obamacare the same thing is going on.

Businessmen like my brother did not run a successful business by being stupid and failing to watch the bottom line.

He is far from alone in closing his doors. Because he closed up there are 50 men let go. In turn the ones that were suppliers to businesses like my brothers are also closing their doors.When those like my brother reached the stage where they were having to bid below cost to get the job they are smart enough to get out.That hurt many of the poor and middle class

Quote:

Those poor rich folks having to carry such a heavy burden of taxes. It just isn't fair. The lower classes should have to pay more. They don't need to be eating anything more than beans and rice anyway. If every poor man would just eat beans and rice and pay more taxes, maybe the rich people wouldn't have to carry such a heavy load. Poor me, poor me, pour me another shot of whiskey so I can drown my sorrow.

From your attitude it appears you think God may have had it wrong. He did not exempt the poor from returning 10% to God.

Ten percent from those making 25,000 a year or ten percent from those making 2 million a year is a pretty balanced approach.

God's way was/is fair.

The poor rich folk attitude of yours shows a lot of animosity towards those that have more than you.

If the poor claim to have to eat beans and rice maybe they need to get busy and earn more.One job not enough? Get another and work more than the typical 40 hours per week. Millions of us have done that. Following the tornado that wiped us out we had 126.00 more going out a month than we had coming in.My husband worked his regular job and 11-to 7 AM four nights a week at a bakery.I did daycare.We kept at it till our bills were paid and we had savings built up. And we did not eat beans and rice exclusively. I was frugal with what I purchased. Being behind welfare recipients in the grocery check out line I have not seen anyone with beans and rice and nothing more.Beans and rice have to be cooked and is not nearly as handy as the convenience foods which their carts are full of.

We did not expect anyone to give us a hand out.Millions have done same.

[Dr. Shane]

The poor would have much more opportunity if the deck were not stacked against them by minimum wage, all kinds of government regulations and paperwork, unions, high taxes on their prospective employers, and the myriad of other do-gooder things that make it so difficult for business to hire them.

That sounds like the opinion of one that doesn't know history. We can go back to a time before minimum wage, government regulations and unions and ask ourselves if we want to return to that kind of America.

Any idea how many workers died in construction each year before OSHA was created? Any idea how many died last year? Makes everybody working in construction thank God for government regulation.

[Dr. Shane]

From your attitude it appears you think God may have had it wrong. He did not exempt the poor from returning 10% to God.

Yes. I am also one of those guys that believe in the separation of church and state. I actually don't think it a good idea to legislate the Ten Commandments. Some do. Some think all the laws in the civil government should come right out of the Bible.

[karl]

Any idea how many workers died in construction each year before OSHA was created? Any idea how many died last year? Makes everybody working in construction thank God for government regulation.

Just as you did with entitlements and growth in GDP, you have picked things that coincided and you have assumed a causative relationship which does not exist.

Workplace deaths and serious injuries were on the decline for decades before OSHA was created. Fewer workplace deaths and injuries reflect many changes in our working conditions — greater automation, shift in employment from manufacturing to the service sector, leaps in technology, enhanced knowledge, etc. There exists no clear and substantial evidence that OSHA has played any significant role in preventing workplace injuries or death. It HAS produced mountains of paperwork and made it less likely for businesses to hire poor, inexperienced workers.

It is dumb to make laws and regulatory agencies to harass people for doing what they want to do anyway. The incentives for the private sector to maintain safe working conditions are clear. Beyond a commonly held concern for one’s employees, the financial incentives are substantial. That is, after factoring into the equation lost production and productivity costs, health-care costs, insurance costs, possible lawsuits, and so on, it is clear that safety pays. For these reasons, unsafe workplaces are the exception rather than the rule. Unfortunately, with the anti-business mentality among Libs, this truth generally gets lost in the mainstream rhetoric which bashes business at every opportunity.

The anti-business mentality in our government and in our society is suicidal. What do these people think makes our economy tick. Government??? ROFL!!!

[bonnie]

Quote:

It is dumb to make laws and regulatory agencies to harass people

The anti-business mentality in our government and in our society is suicidal. What do these people think makes our economy tick. Government??? ROFL!!!

Yup,without the government the economy is lost.

Most construction businesses pay more per month in insurance premiums than the typical middle class wage earner earns in a year.

A series of claims for carelessness soon sees rise to unsustainable levels.

[Dr. Shane]

There exists no clear and substantial evidence that OSHA has played any significant role in preventing workplace injuries or death.

I see that Kool-aid being offered but think it better not to drink it. I choose to use my mind to actually think and not intoxicate it with blue or red Kool-aid. Perhaps there are some Kool-aid drinkers in here willing to swallow that but I am not one of them. Thanks but no thanks.

[karl]

Originally Posted By: karl

There exists no clear and substantial evidence that OSHA has played any significant role in preventing workplace injuries or death.

I see that Kool-aid being offered but think it better not to drink it.

Richard Butler of the University of Minnesota, who studied National Safety Council data on workplace fatality rates, summarized his findings on OSHA: "Generally, the OSHA variable is statistically insignificant.''

Look at the graph of workplace injuries pre and post OSHA in this article and tell me they improved on what was already happening:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/handbook/hb105-36.html

[Dr. Shane]

The Cato Institute mixes red Kool-aid. I normally take a pass on that.

[bonnie]

The Cato Institute mixes red Kool-aid. I normally take a pass on that.

Instead of the cutsy dismissive kool aid routine why not cite where Cato is doing as you accuse?

Or any that you disagree with.

[Dr. Shane]

Anyone who believes that OSHA has not created a safer working place is living in lala land. I mean, to believe that means drinking some very strong Kool-aid or just being so ignorant of the facts that one has no business even discussing the topic. I have worked in commercial construction my entire professional career. I have my college degree in construction management. I also do volunteer work in construction in Mexico. There is no way I could ever be suckered into believing that OSHA does not increase workplace safety and save lives. I know better.

[bonnie]

Anyone who believes that OSHA has not created a safer working place is living in lala land. I mean, to believe that means drinking some very strong Kool-aid or just being so ignorant of the facts that one has no business even discussing the topic. I have worked in commercial construction my entire professional career. I have my college degree in construction management. I also do volunteer work in construction in Mexico. There is no way I could ever be suckered into believing that OSHA does not increase workplace safety and save lives. I know better.

It isn't just the topic of OSHA,you dismiss others frequently with that statement.Impressive resume. I do know several that are in the commercial construction business longer than you have worked in this business for another and they have similar feelings as Karl concerning OSHA. They are successful,injuries and accidents very low for the high risk business they are in. They are not successful because they drink the kool aid or pay large fines because of OSHA violations.

As education and pay progressed work safety would have also progressed. Child labor would have come to an end.Parents did not force their kids to work because of greed. At that time all hands were needed to work for many.

Most progress that has been made would have come about without the long arm of the government.

[Dr. Shane]

When one travels to other countries with less regulation they find that job safety has not progressed. Child labor is still being used. In fact, when I was in El Salvador the Maranatha director there was himself employing child labor and working them long hours. I sent a girl home one night after 10:00pm that had been working all day and couldn't have been 12 years old. Maranatha fired the director when they discovered that and other things the man was doing. But what he was doing was not illegal in El Salvador.

It is quite naive to think that corporate America would police itself and is in no need of regulation. Why don't we fire all the police? Criminals will police themselves. If they commit a crime they can just go and turn themselves in at the local jail. Motorists will stop speeding. Alcoholics will quit driving drunk.

[bonnie]

When one travels to other countries with less regulation they find that job safety has not progressed. Child labor is still being used. In fact, when I was in El Salvador the Maranatha director there was himself employing child labor and working them long hours. I sent a girl home one night after 10:00pm that had been working all day and couldn't have been 12 years old. Maranatha fired the director when they discovered that and other things the man was doing. But what he was doing was not illegal in El Salvador.