Is America in Trouble?

[jasd]

QR frame:

No fear?—I suppose not, should one embrace the idea of being killed and/or tortured – together with his/her family and friends.

If they kill the Master will they spare the servants? Seems tah me that Writ guarantees us trouble – sometime future. Lucky, lucky, yes?—not...!!

Don’t know ‘bout yous and your house, but for me and mine – we treasure life and fear evil – ‘going not gentle into that good night’. Good Xtian theology.

“Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

[GreatLakesGramma]

QR frame:

No fear?—I suppose not, should one embrace the idea of being killed and/or tortured – together with his/her family and friends.

If they kill the Master will they spare the servants? Seems tah me that Writ guarantees us trouble – sometime future. Lucky, lucky, yes?—not...!!

Don’t know ‘bout yous and your house, but for me and mine – we treasure life and fear evil – ‘going not gentle into that good night’. Good Xtian theology.

“Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Sister White wrote that in times past (and present) the death of the saints is as seed sown for the spread of the gospel. But in the time of trouble, not so. Probation will by then be closed, and there will be no point in the death of any of God's elect, except to spare them the trouble they would be unable to endure. She also said that it will not be fear of man that will make it such a horrible time for the saved, but agony over our own shortcomings, and doubts of our own salvation, pressed upon our minds by demons, just as Jesus' agony over the separation from His Father was so torturing to Him that He scarcely felt the physical pain.

I am trusting God to save me and mine, and all those who choose Him as their Lord and Savior, from the horrors of that time. Even if we are to be tortured, He can give strength to endure it, though I would certainly rather not experience that, and desire even less for my loved ones to. But as I read news reports of truly evil humans inflicting unspeakable evils on others, I feel more fear for the safety of my small granddaughters, and also my daughter and even my sons, than I feel over thoughts of that time of trouble. I am tired of the evils and troubles of this life, the pain, sickness and sorrows. And there is no way for it to come to an end without going through that time. So again I say, bring it on.

[LifeHiscost]

I am trusting God to save me and mine, and all those who choose Him as their Lord and Savior, from the horrors of that time. Even if we are to be tortured, He can give strength to endure it, though I would certainly rather not experience that, and desire even less for my loved ones to. But as I read news reports of truly evil humans inflicting unspeakable evils on others, I feel more fear for the safety of my small granddaughters, and also my daughter and even my sons, than I feel over thoughts of that time of trouble. I am tired of the evils and troubles of this life, the pain, sickness and sorrows. And there is no way for it to come to an end without going through that time. So again I say, bring it on.

"And there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars; and upon the earth [there will be] distress (trouble and anguish) of nations in bewilderment and perplexity) [without resources, left wanting, embarrassed, in doubt, not knowing which way to turn] at the roaring (the echo) of the tossing of the sea,

Men swooning away or expiring with fear and dread and apprehension and expectation of the things that are coming on the world; for the [very] powers of the heavens will be shaken and caused to totter.

And then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with great (transcendent and overwhelming) power and [all His kingly] glory (majesty and splendor).

Now when these things begin to occur, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption (deliverance) is drawing near.

And He told them a parable: Look at the fig tree and all the trees;

When they put forth their buds and come out in leaf, you see for yourselves and perceive and know that summer is already near.

Even so, when you see these things taking place, understand and know that the kingdom of God is at hand."

Luke 21:25-31 AMP

He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High

Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;

My God, in Him I will trust.”

Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler

And from the perilous pestilence.

He shall cover you with His feathers,

And under His wings you shall take refuge;

His truth shall be your shield and buckler.

You shall not be afraid of the terror by night,

Nor of the arrow that flies by day,

Nor of the pestilence that walks in darkness,

Nor of the destruction that lays waste at noonday.

A thousand may fall at your side,

And ten thousand at your right hand;

But it shall not come near you.

Only with your eyes shall you look,

And see the reward of the wicked.

Because you have made the LORD, who is my refuge,

Even the Most High, your dwelling place,

No evil shall befall you,

Nor shall any plague come near your dwelling;

For He shall give His angels charge over you,

To keep you in all your ways.

In their hands they shall bear you up,

Lest you dash your foot against a stone.

Psalms 91:1-12 NKJV

JOY!!

[LifeHiscost]

Don’t know ‘bout yous and your house, but for me and mine – we treasure life and fear evil – ‘going not gentle into that good night’. Good Xtian theology.

“Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

"....as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.”" Joshua 24:15 NKJV

"It is good that you grasp this,...For he who fears God will escape them all."Ecclesiastes 7:18 NKJV

JOY!!

[LifeHiscost]

Comment: Isn't it time we dust our Spirit of Prophecy books off and read and study the relevant messages within these marvelous books.

Suzanne

Much knowledge comes from the Spirit of Prophecy, adding light on the pathway to follow. However the power to follow is dependent wholly upon the Word and the Holy Spirit.

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. "

Matthew 10:16-21 KJV

"For no temptation (no trial regarded as enticing to sin), [no matter how it comes or where it leads] has overtaken you and laid hold on you that is not common to man [that is, no temptation or trial has come to you that is beyond human resistance and that is not adjusted and adapted and belonging to human experience, and such as man can bear]. But God is faithful [to His Word and to His compassionate nature], and He [can be trusted] not to let you be tempted and tried and assayed beyond your ability and strength of resistance and power to endure, but with the temptation He will [always] also provide the way out (the means of escape to a landing place), that you may be capable and strong and powerful to bear up under it patiently."

1 Corinthians 10:13 AMP

Joy!!

[SivartM]

Well, the Bible is a Spirit of Prophecy book.

[Dr. Rich]

Amen CoAspen!

As for this comment: "Comment: Isn't it time we dust our Spirit of Prophecy books off and read and study the relevant messages within these marvelous books." my reply is: Isn't it time we throw all of EGW's books into the fire and go back to the bible? Enough with all of the confusion they have caused! And besides, they are NOT the "Spirit of Prophecy books" no matter how many people mistakenly believe this lie! Check out Rev. 2:18-29, but especially verse 23.

For those of you who want to hurl stones, take a gander at what Elijah said about Jezebel and know that Jesus prophesied that another type of "Elijah" will appear just before Jesus comes like a thief. (Matthew 24:45) Someone has to warn people about this woman in the last days and people will not like it, just as they did not like what the first Elijah had to say.

Also remember that those found in Revelation 12:17 are those who keep the commandments AND the words (testimony) of Jesus--not the testimony of anyone else.

[Tom Wetmore]

I decided some time ago, based on Revelation 19:10, that it was inappropriate to refer to EGW's writings as the "Spirit of Prophecy". So I no longer do so. That verse specifically states that it is the testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy. And that verse is the only place in Scripture where that phrase is used. EGW's writings are the testimony of EGW.

[SivartM]

It could also mean, "testimony about Jesus". As in, the spirit of prophecy testifies about Jesus. I think the spirit of prophecy is the Holy Spirit.

But I don't like calling Ellen White's writings "Spirit of Prophecy" either.

[Suzanne Sutton]

Call it what you will, brethren. The very fact that Christ warned against the coming of false prophets in the last days, as a sign of His return, (Matt. 24:24), shows that there will be true prophets. There cannot be a counterfeit without a genuine. Otherwise there would be no need for Christ's warning. He could have ended all controversy by simply saying there would never be another prophet. But He didn't. He only warned against the false....

And Paul the apostle in 1 Cor. 12:28 notes: And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues...."

Then again Paul speaking to the New Testament church in Eph. 4:11, 12 - "And he gave some apostles; and some prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."

These gifts are given to the church "till we all come in the unity of the faith." (Eph. 4:13). Something we will be working on until the Saviour's return, which means they are still needed and functioning now.

Is the Bible alone sufficient for us in these last days? It should be but with our darkened hearts and minds we simply cannot and do not "get it." Indeed, look at the other churches with Bible in hand are totally off on so many important subjects: the state of the dead, the Sabbath, the rapture, an eternally burning hell, etc.

The Lord in love and mercy saw that we need help and sent, yes, the Spirit of Prophecy, to clear up so many issues. Our health message as elucidated by Sis. Ellen, is second to none and is being embraced by many other than SDAs.

Lord, help us!!!! You sent the SOP because you love us and saw that we needed it and so many are fighting it. Have mercy!!! Let us pray for each other--if we who believe wholeheartedly in the SOP are headed down the wrong path, we need to know it. And if those who oppose it are in the wrong they need to know it. May the Lord help us as we wrestle with the many problems facing us in these last days.

Suzanne

[Dr. Rich]

Suzanne, of course one can form an opinion of anything they want but for me and my house, I choose to follow ONLY the words and teachings of Jesus given to us by HIS eyewitnesses as found in John 14:26.

Can you tell me is who the ONE left in charge of the Master's house as found in Matthew 24:45? This can't be EGW since she is dead and the one feeding the fellow servants will be doing so when Jesus comes like a thief. Feeding means teaching and food means new truth. One can't be hungry for this type of food IF they are full from the food of EGW.

[Dr. Shane]

I decided some time ago, based on Revelation 19:10, that it was inappropriate to refer to EGW's writings as the "Spirit of Prophecy". So I no longer do so. That verse specifically states that it is the testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy. And that verse is the only place in Scripture where that phrase is used. EGW's writings are the testimony of EGW.

I have always read Revelation 19:10 as saying the Spirit that inspires the prophets is the testimony of Jesus. Basically saying the same thing as 2 Peter 1:21. "For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." If one believe EGW was a true prophet, then he works would rightly be classified as being part of the Spirit of Prophecy.

[karl]

The Lord in love and mercy saw that we need help and sent, yes, the Spirit of Prophecy, to clear up so many issues. Our health message as elucidated by Sis. Ellen, is second to none and is being embraced by many other than SDAs.

Lord, help us!!!! You sent the SOP because you love us and saw that we needed it and so many are fighting it. Have mercy!!!

Amen!

And what a thing to fight! I could understand it if she were urging people to kill each other, but she's urging us to cling to Christ and to work for the physical, emotional and spiritual healing of our fellow man. She's urging us to make sacrifices for God's cause and stand for the right.

Quick. Grab a rock and break her nose!

[Tom Wetmore]

Originally Posted By: Tom Wetmore

I decided some time ago, based on Revelation 19:10, that it was inappropriate to refer to EGW's writings as the "Spirit of Prophecy". So I no longer do so. That verse specifically states that it is the testimony of Jesus that is the spirit of prophecy. And that verse is the only place in Scripture where that phrase is used. EGW's writings are the testimony of EGW.

I have always read Revelation 19:10 as saying the Spirit that inspires the prophets is the testimony of Jesus. Basically saying the same thing as 2 Peter 1:21. "For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit." If one believe EGW was a true prophet, then he works would rightly be classified as being part of the Spirit of Prophecy.

Being part of, associated with, as a result of, inspired by, carried along by, or anything along those lines is quite different from being The Spirit of Prophecy. That has a ring of exclusivity or a claim of being The Source rather than the result of the Source. That strikes me as nearly blasphemous. It elevates her words to the status of The Word of Jesus or the Word of God. And it tends to elevate her status above that of simply being a prophet or that of any other prophet. She becomes The Prophet, the last and best, above all prophets, almost a deification. It does tend to lead some of our critics to see us as a cult that believes in the Quadrinty - The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit and EGW.

Lest anyone misunderstand, I am not disputing the prophetic gift given to EGW, her inspiration, the role and function of being a prophet, how her words should be regarded, etc. Those are quite different issues. But I do think those issues become distorted by the appellation of her writings as The Spirit of Prophecy, even making it difficult for rational discussion of those issues. It tends to evoke a similar response among devote Adventists as any similar questions about the words of the prophet Mohammad do among devote Muslims.

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

Being part of, associated with, as a result of, inspired by, carried along by, or anything along those lines is quite different from being The Spirit of Prophecy. That has a ring of exclusivity

I think that is reading a little too much into it. Sounds like someone thinking too much or trying to read between the lines.

I see the book of James as being part of the Bible but not the entire Bible. Yet, there have been times I have quoted the book of James and said "the Bible says". Although I wasn't trying to insinuate that James is the entire Bible.

There have also been times I have quoted or paraphrased Ellen White and said "the Spirit of Prophecy says". Although I wasn't trying to insinuate that Ellen White is the entire Spirit of Prophecy.