Has anyone else reserved a Nissan Leaf electric car?

[cardw]

I got an email this last Tuesday inviting me to reserve the new Nissan Leaf all electric car coming out this December. I'm hoping to get one to be my main commuter.

I was wondering if anyone else has reserved one.

For those of you who don't know about the car here is a list of features.

All Electric 5 seater a little bigger than a Honda Civic.

List Price is $32,780 for the base model. Add $980 ($33760) for rear view camera, fog lights, auto shutoff headlights, and solar panel for trickle charge on rear fin.

100 mile range between charges.

Top speed 90 mph

Full charge in 8 hours with 240v, Full charge in 26 minutes at Charge Station, Full charge in 15-16 hours at 120v.

Average cost for full charge is $2.75

Regenerative braking. (Putting the brakes on recharges the battery)

Full wireless connection through cell network.

Will indicate closest charge stations and if they are open.

Has iPhone app to heat or cool the car remotely before you get in so you can use the plug to power the air conditioning or the heater. You can set a timer so that you recharge to during off peak hours reducing the cost to charge the car.

Bluetooth connectivity for phone and music streaming.

In my area I can get a $7500 tax credit from the Feds, $5000 from the State of California, and $3000 from the county I live in. That makes the cost end up being for the fully loaded one $18260. Basically my payment will end up being less than my current fuel bill.

PG&E is also offering a 10% discount on electricity and some insurance companies are giving discounts on car insurance.

[olger]

MPG?

oh

[Amelia]

Nice, but I wouid need more than 100 miles between charges. And the charge time isn't fast enough.

[cardw]

MPG?

oh

Well if you did a cost mpg comparison with say a car that gets 25 mpg you could come out to...

Say fuel is 3.50 per gallon then you get 100 miles for $14.

100 mile range fill up is an average of $2.75 so you get 5 times more range for the same cost making a cost equivalent of 125 mpg with a 25 mpg car.

Now if gas goes to 5.00 per gallon then you have a cost equivalent of 182 mpg.

The advantage is that when I get solar panels on my house I can reduce the cost of charging considerably and insure against increase costs of electricity.

The great thing about the car is that it is zero emission by itself, plus there are no oil changes, tune ups, and much less in brake jobs since the regenerative braking does most of the work slowing the car down.

[cardw]

Nice, but I wouid need more than 100 miles between charges. And the charge time isn't fast enough.

The Chevy Volt plug in electric extended range car is coming out early next year might be a better fit for you.

1st 40 to 50 miles all electric even at highway speeds and when the gas generator kicks in you still get 50 mpg.

It's a mid size car and it has a 340 mile range.

[phkrause]

Sounds like a good deal cardw.

pk

[Bravus]

Good stuff: Sounds like they're getting beyond the 'early adopter' stage and becoming viable as mainstream transport.

I believe the usual 'gotcha' with electrics is that they quote a top speed and a maximum range - but the maximum range is only doable at significantly less than the top speed. I mean, you're not going to want to sit on 90 mph, of course, but if it turns out that the 100 miles is only achievable at 30 mph... worth checking out reviews, I guess. Unless your commute averages that anyway - but stop/start will use more power.

Definitely *not* trying to dissuade anyone - but I'd rather someone do that tad of extra homework so they know exactly what to expect... (not suggesting you haven't Rich).

If you get home from work at say 6 pm and plug in, Amelia, 16 hours later is 10 am, so yeah, I guess I can see how that could be a hassle for a commute. Might be less if it's less than a full charge required... depends how long the commute is. And it might also be worth getting a 240 V system, though I guess that increases the cost of the car.

On the upside, Rich, it's a lot easier to be partly self-sufficient by getting solar panels than it is to drill and refine your own oil. ;-)

[Amelia]

I only know of a couple pf charging stations in the Portland metro area and none near my area. Charging would have to be done from home. And since I live in an apt, you can bet the car would be unplugged by kids and others during the night.

Bravus, I start my work day at 5:30am. Sometimes my day doesn't end until 7pm or so. I can easily put 200 miles in some days. I would be up the creek using an all electric car like the Leaf.

[cardw]

I believe the usual 'gotcha' with electrics is that they quote a top speed and a maximum range - but the maximum range is only doable at significantly less than the top speed. I mean, you're not going to want to sit on 90 mph, of course, but if it turns out that the 100 miles is only achievable at 30 mph... worth checking out reviews, I guess. Unless your commute averages that anyway - but stop/start will use more power.

This is a good question. What I have read is the Nissan has subjected the Leaf to the LA4 cycle which is the same as what we refer to as "EPA City", or "UDDS" driving cycle. This test cycle assumes an average driving speed of 19.59 mph and in the 22 minute driving cycle, it assumes you only break 40 mph once, for about 100 seconds, and never exceed about 58 mph.

They should rate the range using the US06 driving cycle, which more closely resembles highway driving that is very common in the U.S. My commute will generally stay below 60 and average 25 miles an hour for 15 minutes. So the Leaf will match my driving habits on a daily basis. The regenerative braking and the solar panel will help some.

Final battery specs haven't been released and Nissan has been working on their own battery for a while so maybe the 100 mile range might be underestimated. They use flat cells they have developed instead of round ones which make the battery smaller and cooler which should help with battery life.

The great thing about electric cars is if you are stopped in a traffic jam you aren't using very much energy unlike a gasoline car where the engine keeps running.

I think I might be required to install a 240v station at home and the average cost including installation and getting your home wiring ready is $2200, but you will get a federal rebate of $1000 to offset that cost. And if I put a station in at my business I can get an even more generous rebate and possibly make some money by selling energy.

[Bravus]

Yep - ready for prime time, not quite ready for Amelia time. It's coming, dear one, you'll just have to wait a little longer.

[olger]

Good stuff: Sounds like they're getting beyond the 'early adopter' stage and becoming viable as mainstream transport.

I believe the usual 'gotcha' with electrics is that they quote a top speed and a maximum range - but the maximum range is only doable at significantly less than the top speed. I mean, you're not going to want to sit on 90 mph, of course, but if it turns out that the 100 miles is only achievable at 30 mph... worth checking out reviews, I guess. Unless your commute averages that anyway - but stop/start will use more power.

Definitely *not* trying to dissuade anyone - but I'd rather someone do that tad of extra homework so they know exactly what to expect... (not suggesting you haven't Rich).

If you get home from work at say 6 pm and plug in, Amelia, 16 hours later is 10 am, so yeah, I guess I can see how that could be a hassle for a commute. Might be less if it's less than a full charge required... depends how long the commute is. And it might also be worth getting a 240 V system, though I guess that increases the cost of the car.

On the upside, Rich, it's a lot easier to be partly self-sufficient by getting solar panels than it is to drill and refine your own oil. ;-)

Good point.

[Cosmin M.]

Why waste 32k on a piece of junk? I would rather buy a 2010 Audi A4, just chekc this list out of cars that are way better then a car which can't even hit 100! http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/new-cars-25k-to-35k.htm

[cardw]

Why waste 32k on a piece of junk? I would rather buy a 2010 Audi A4, just chekc this list out of cars that are way better then a car which can't even hit 100! http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/new-cars-25k-to-35k.htm

Well it's not a piece of junk, but is pretty high tech and my cost with incentives is about 18K. So my payment will end out being less than my fuel bill is right now. My electric charge cost will be less than 10 dollars a month. So with gas prices going up this will end up saving me quite a lot.

Plus no oil changes, tune-ups, radiator, brake jobs will be less often because of regenerative braking, no transmission, very quiet, and no emissions.

[phkrause]

And why would you say its a piece of junk Cosmin? Because its not a sports car, or a high tech vehicle? When you get older you'll probably which you had one. Right now your folks probably are helping you financially. But when your on your own or have no job you'll which God had helped you get a car that does really good gas mileage. Besides when we are young we're never interested in anything but sporting looking cars.

pk

[Cosmin M.]

Not exactly, I am interested in cars that look sporty but are not nessecarily sporty, for example, I am not into Honda Civic or any other 2 door type cars. I like Audi, BMW, and Subaru. I wouldn't buy a car if it did less then 20mpg even if they gave it to me for 100$.

[phkrause]

Not exactly, I am interested in cars that look sporty but are not nessecarily sporty, for example, I am not into Honda Civic or any other 2 door type cars. I like Audi, BMW, and Subaru. I wouldn't buy a car if it did less then 20mpg even if they gave it to me for 100$.

Well that's good to know.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

I wonder how it will hold up in the long run? These days I am driving a 20 year old vehicle with 260,000+ miles on it, which runs just fine, and gives me no problems. Will any of those still be running in 15 or 20 years, when I might finally be able to afford one of this year's models?

[cardw]

Not exactly, I am interested in cars that look sporty but are not nessecarily sporty, for example, I am not into Honda Civic or any other 2 door type cars. I like Audi, BMW, and Subaru. I wouldn't buy a car if it did less then 20mpg even if they gave it to me for 100$.

If you like performance you can check out the Tesla Model S

It has a 300 mile range and goes 0 to 60 in 6 seconds and it's all electric. List is 49,000 and with incentives it will cost about 35,000.

[phkrause]

I wonder how it will hold up in the long run? These days I am driving a 20 year old vehicle with 260,000+ miles on it, which runs just fine, and gives me no problems. Will any of those still be running in 15 or 20 years, when I might finally be able to afford one of this year's models?

You make a very good point. It does seem that many cars don't hold up well. But that could also be the result of the drivers, and how they drive the car. even though sports are are for driving for showing off, they are very much abused and do not last as long as they really should. But than there are those that buy sports cars and keep them for many many years because they don't beat and abuse them. Whereas the cars that are make in europe, at least most of them, are not made with low gear ratio's but made for top end speed, that's why most european cars can go over 150 mph with ease. And they last for many many miles. My uncle (who lives in Germany) used to only buy MB diesels and with at least 200-300,00 miles on them, rebuild the engine and than put on at least another 200-300,000 miles. He used to drive a lot of miles for his job. He was a construction forman.

pk

[GreatLakesGramma]

I wasn't actually trying to make a point, just wondering whether any of the new hybrid or electric vehicles will last long enough for me to ever be able to afford one.

[cardw]

I wasn't actually trying to make a point, just wondering whether any of the new hybrid or electric vehicles will last long enough for me to ever be able to afford one.

The hybrid vehicles are considerably more complex so I'm not sure about how durable they will be in the long run.

An electric engine will far outlast a gasoline engine because it has very few moving parts and the AC engines in these cars don't have brushes that can wear out. Most industrial electric engines like the one's in fork lifts can easily last 20 years and even then with bearing replacement and new windings can operate even longer. You can see a number of electric Toyota Rav4s still on the road and they were built from 1997 to 2003.

Here is link on them

Toyota Rav4

An issue with electric cars is the battery. Conventional thinking says at this time is that the packs will last 10 years and when you have to replace them you will have cheaper and better performing batteries. Car battery packs will also have an after use application with energy storage at less electrical current demands than a car accelerating would have.

So you could sell the old pack and buy a new one that hopefully performs better and is less expensive.

[Tom Wetmore]

There are also some ideas circulating to solve the range/time to charge and keep going problem for long distance travel. The idea would be to have battery swap stations where you could pull in have the batteries swapped out for fully charged batteries in a very short time frame that wouldn't be much more than a typical gas refueling stop. As electric cars become more common this has some business feasiblity.