Is "social justice a perversion of the gospel" ? ? ?

[abelisle]

That's what Glenn Beck thinks and this is Jim Wallis' retort to that idea:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/glenn-beck-immigration-an_b_566404.html

Granted, this article is from the Huffington Post which is a liberal blog but this idea begs the question: does the Adventist stand on the social gospel (which is basically that this shouldn't be our concern but rather an emphasis on preparation for Christ's second coming and interestingly not the gospel message itself) lend credence to Beck or to Wallis?

BTW, if you haven't read God's Politics - why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It - a new vision for Faith and Politics in America you should.

Alex (waiting to see how the people who respond to this thread feel about Arizona's pending immigration legislation?)

[SivartM]

I randomly found an Ellen White compilation called "Welfare Ministry" last week. It's very interesting. I wonder if it would have been called "Social Justice Ministry" if she had written it today?

[phkrause]

That's what Glenn Beck thinks and this is Jim Wallis' retort to that idea:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jim-wallis/glenn-beck-immigration-an_b_566404.html

Granted, this article is from the Huffington Post which is a liberal blog but this idea begs the question: does the Adventist stand on the social gospel (which is basically that this shouldn't be our concern but rather an emphasis on preparation for Christ's second coming and interestingly not the gospel message itself) lend credence to Beck or to Wallis?

BTW, if you haven't read God's Politics - why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It - a new vision for Faith and Politics in America you should.

Alex (waiting to see how the people who respond to this thread feel about Arizona's pending immigration legislation?)

Alex thanks for posting this article. The way Mr. Wallis puts it, is exactly or just about the way I've always thought that it should be. I've always thought that Wallis is more conservative than Beck any day.

pk

[phkrause]

I randomly found an Ellen White compilation called "Welfare Ministry" last week. It's very interesting. I wonder if it would have been called "Social Justice Ministry" if she had written it today?

I'd say that you are correct Sivart.

pk

[olger]

The social gospel has always been attractive to folks who take a utopian perspective of the Kingdom of God. Today the emphasis is falling upon political-religio machinations of the SG in an attempt to infuse socialism with a kind of superior morality.

g

[Gerr]

Is "social justice a perversion of the gospel?"

Only if it becomes an end of itself. As the Johnny Cash song says, "so heavenly minded you're no earthly good."

[Ted Oplinger]

And Gerry, that is precisely what it is in these last days: a means to an end.

To this humble reader, there is nothing "just" in forcing others under penalty of law to make life better for others, no matter what one's motivation is. What I read the the Gospel advocating is the voluntary giving of time and resources shared toward the unfortunate among us. That, to me, is the very definition of charity.

Our accountability for what God has prospered us with is solely between the individual and God, as God is the true Owner of everything. Man can scream "Unfair!" all he wants, but there are reasons why God prospers even the unjust (Think Zaccheus the Tax Collector). Simply put, there will never be a time on this side of the resurrection where life is fair for everyone.

What passes for "social justice" today is an amalgamation of covetousness, intolerance, judgmentalness, and theft - none of which are characteristics a Christian should desire to have in their character.

[Tom Wetmore]

The social gospel has always been attractive to folks who take a utopian perspective of the Kingdom of God...

And apparently it is not attractive to those that don't believe that the kingdom of God fits the first definition of "utopia" and think it a work of fiction consistent with the second defintion derived from where the word originated...

Utopia

1. An ideally perfect place, especially in its social, political, and moral aspects.

2. An impractical, idealistic scheme for social and political reform.

[Neil D]

To no one in particular.....

My understanding of the gospel is that it brings out, in the individual, greater compassion, hope and faith, things that are necessary for life...

I have had no compassion and no hope and no faith in life...trust me when I say that without these concepts in your life, you will be suicidal or maniacal [sp]...and I have see that in others as well.

In the immigration problems that are put forth in the article, Willis does indeed, talk about the need for equal justice thru Glenn Beck. But there is also a need for mercy as well, just as Willis himself advocates. We have second generation illegals born here who know NOTHING but american values. Is it justified to uproot these people and send them to another country that neither knows them nor wants them? What illegal thing have they done, except to be born here? Last time I checked, that was not a crime. But to impose legalities upon these people would be a moral crime.

The bible says that where sin abounds, grace did "much MORE ABOUND"....It would be a principle of grace to forgive these people, accept them into our society and get thier parents back on the road to being legals...

While this will not solve the major problem of immigration, it would do much to help....

[Neil D]

The social gospel has always been attractive to folks who take a utopian perspective of the Kingdom of God. Today the emphasis is falling upon political-religio machinations of the SG in an attempt to infuse socialism with a kind of superior morality.

Ok, I admit to being stupid...

What does this mean in lite of the article that was mentioned?

[GreatLakesGramma]

We have second generation illegals born here who know NOTHING but american values. Is it justified to uproot these people and send them to another country that neither knows them nor wants them? What illegal thing have they done, except to be born here? Last time I checked, that was not a crime.

If they were born here, they are already US citizens.

[Guest]

That's right GLG.

[Guest]

So there is no such thing as a second generation illegal.

[SivartM]

So... we send their parents away without them... and put the kids in foster care?

[phkrause]

So... we send their parents away without them... and put the kids in foster care?

Oh Sivart I'm so tempted to add to your post, but I'm not that kind of person anymore, but man am I tempt, tempt, tempt, tempted none the less.

pk

[bonnie]

So... we send their parents away without them... and put the kids in foster care?

Parents of anchor babies are rarely deported.In addition because of the babies they will collect welfare.

My brother adopted his two grandchildren,father mexican illegal. Children were born here,anchor babies. During the court proceedings to terminate parental rights he was forbidden by the judge and his attorney to reference the father's illegal status.

As a illegal the father had more rights than my brother,a citizen.His background and fitness to raise the children was fair game.Just as the background of the mother,a american citizen.

In addition the american taxpayer picked up the attorney tab for someone not supposed to be here anyway.

[Dr. Shane]

That's what Glenn Beck thinks

[Dr. Shane]

So... we send their parents away without them... and put the kids in foster care?

The children must be deported with the parents unless they have other family here that is legal. I have never heard of these children being put in foster care. Most of the time the children are deported with the parents. The children remain US citizens and can come back to the US when they are adults. Often times they come across the border as teenagers just to go shopping.

Because the children are US citizens, they are entitled to benefits. Many of those deported live on the border and get food stamps and other assistance programs. The deported mothers have friends that come across to get the benefits. There are often supermarkets close to the port of entry where these folks buy food with their food stamps and take over to Mexico.

Now would a better solution be to allow them to stay in the US, as long as they haven't committed any serious crime, so that they can work and not be in need of government assistance? Of course it would be.

[abelisle]

Shane,

Please note carefully that the operative phrase was "social gospel" not "social justice" which are two different issues.

One deals with salvational concerns here on Earth rather than preparation for the 2nd Coming, the other is dealing with social/cultural issues as in helping the poor etc.

Alex

[Dr. Shane]

I think too many people start thinking politics when the terms "social justice" are used. Social justice is a subject that can be talked about in either the political or religious realm. Those that confuse church and state will mix those two realms together. Normally, Adventists understand the difference between the church and the state.

I don't see the Arizona law as being an issue of social justice. The Arizona law basically gave the Arizona police the ability to enforce federal law. The Arizona law made federal immigration law to be state law as well. If anyone has a problem with the Arizona law, doesn't it mean that they also have a problem with the federal immigration law too?

How does social justice tie into the immigration policy? Opening the borders and letting Mexican freely come and go would not solve social injustice. In fact, it would probably cause some new problems with social inequality that we don't have today.

[Dr. Shane]

Shane,

Please note carefully that the operative phrase was "social gospel" not "social justice" which are two different issues.

One deals with salvational concerns here on Earth rather than preparation for the 2nd Coming, the other is dealing with social/cultural issues as in helping the poor etc.

Alex

[abelisle]

This is what EGW meant in referring to the "social gospel"

"Though Ellen White continually held up the challenge of taking the gospel to those “however fallen, however dishonored and debased,”49 she clearly strove for perspective: “The Lord has marked out our way of working. As a people we are not to imitate and fall in with Salvation Army methods. This is not the work that the Lord has given us to do. Neither is it our work to condemn them and speak harsh words against them. There are precious, self-sacrificing souls in the Salvation Army. . . . The Salvation Army workers are trying to save the neglected, downtrodden ones. Discourage them not. Let them do that class of work by their own methods and in their own way. But the Lord has plainly pointed out the work that Seventh-day Adventists are to do.”50" 8T p.184-185

I know this wasn't in the title of the thread but I wanted to ask a supplemental question about this in regard to what Jim Wallis said in his article.

The core idea came from the secular humanist school that proposed saving man by doing good. Christ was not in the details. Man trying to save man. As you can see EGW equated the work of the Salvation Army with the "social gospel."

“Seventh-day Adventist urban involvement maintained equilibrium. It was not trapped in the social gospel movement (bottom-heavy with humanitarianism) developing in this period; but neither was it like the conservative Evangelicalism (top-heavy with evangelism) that developed after World War I.” Butler, “Chicago Mission,” Spectrum, Winter, 1970, p. 49

Alex

[Dr. Shane]

From reading that the term social gospel seems to mean social justice within the Christian setting - not political. The Adventist church is and has been very active in this social gospel for many years despite what EGW said.