Landscapers Find Workers Choosing Jobless Pay

[bonnie]

Last Updated: May 10. 2010 8:17AM

Landscapers find workers choosing jobless pay

Jaclyn Trop / The Detroit News

In a state with the nation's highest jobless rate, landscaping companies are finding some job applicants are rejecting work offers so they can continue collecting unemployment benefits.

It is unclear whether this trend is affecting other seasonal industries. But the fact that some seasonal landscaping workers choose to stay home and collect a check from the state, rather than work outside for a full week and spend money for gas, taxes and other expenses, raises questions about whether extended unemployment benefits give the jobless an incentive to avoid work.

Members of the Michigan Nursery and Landscape Association "have told me that they have a lot of people applying but that when they actually talk to them, it turns out that they're on unemployment and not looking for work," said Amy Frankmann, the group's executive director. "It is starting to make things difficult."

Chris Pompeo, vice president of operations for Landscape America in Warren, said he has had about a dozen offers declined. One applicant, who had eight weeks to go until his state unemployment benefits ran out, asked for a deferred start date.

"It's like, you've got to be kidding me," Pompeo said. "It's frustrating. It's honestly something I've never seen before. They say, 'Oh, OK,' like I surprised them by offering them a job."

Some job applicants are asking to be paid in cash so they can collect unemployment illegally, said Gayle Younglove, vice president at Outdoor Experts Inc. in Romulus.

"Unfortunately, we feel the economy is promoting more and more people and companies to play the system and get paid or collect cash money so they don't have to pay taxes," Younglove said.

$12-per-hour jobs

A person becomes ineligible for benefits if he or she fails to accept suitable work, said Stephen Geskey, director of Michigan's Unemployment Insurance Agency.

The average landscape worker earns about $12 per hour, according to the Michigan Department of Labor and Economic Growth. A full-time landscaping employee would make $225 more a week working than from an unemployment check of $255.

But after federal and state taxes are deducted, a full-time landscaper would earn $350 a week, or $95 more than a jobless check. The gap could narrow further for those who worked at other higher-paying seasonal jobs, such as construction or roofing, which would result in a larger benefits check.

The maximum weekly benefit an unemployed Michigan worker can receive is $387.

The jobless in Michigan are collecting for a longer time -- an average of 19.4 weeks last year, up from 15 weeks in 2008. State benefits last for up to 26 weeks.

The unemployed can then apply for extended federal benefits that increase the total time on the public dole up to a maximum of 99 weeks.

The federal jobless benefits extension "is the most generous safety net we've ever offered nationally," said David Littmann, senior economist of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, a free-market-oriented research group in Midland. The extra protection reduces the incentive to find work, he said.

It's impossible to know exactly how many workers are illegally declining employment, but 15 percent of Michigan's economy is underground, where people trade services, barter or exchange cash without reporting it to the government, Littmann said.

Working pays off

One former landscaper, who has been on unemployment for a year, said he will search for work when the benefits expire, but he estimates he earns about $50 to $60 less a week than he would if he were working.

"It's crazy," he said. "They keep doing all of these extensions."

But another analyst said working pays off for most seasonal laborers.

"That's a tough call for a family that's trying to pay its bills," said Sharon Parks, president and CEO of the Michigan League for Human Services, a Lansing-based nonprofit that helps low and moderate-income families toward economic self-sufficiency.

"But I think that by and large, people want to work because they need a paycheck," she said.

That is what other Metro Detroit landscaping companies are finding. They say business is up this season, and they have a steady stream of applicants eager to fill the orders.

"They can earn more money working for us than they can from getting unemployment," said Tony Konja, president of Artistic Outdoor Services in Farmington Hills.

"Finding talented people is, and always will be, a challenge," said Sam LaGrasso, president of United Lawnscape Inc. in Washington Township. "But if a company is focused on being good to its people and providing advancement opportunities, the talent will find you."

But B&L Landscaping in Oak Park finds the labor pool is noticeably weaker and less motivated, director Richard Angell said, even though the company still gets 80 to 100 applicants per week.

"We're just getting people coming in, filling out paperwork, hoping they won't get hired," Angell said. "... We're having a hard time finding quality applicants."

Gaming the system is "not surprising, but the question is how prevalent it is," the Unemployment Insurance Agency's Geskey said. "My gut tells me it may happen, but under the law, that person's benefits need to end.

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20100510/BIZ/5100335#ixzz0nY9tivu3

[karl]

But the fact that some seasonal landscaping workers choose to stay home and collect a check from the state, rather than work outside for a full week and spend money for gas, taxes and other expenses, raises questions about whether extended unemployment benefits give the jobless an incentive to avoid work.

What kind of person would have any trouble figuring this out? (I mean, besides liberals and bureaucrats.)

[bonnie]

Originally Posted By: bonnie

But the fact that some seasonal landscaping workers choose to stay home and collect a check from the state, rather than work outside for a full week and spend money for gas, taxes and other expenses, raises questions about whether extended unemployment benefits give the jobless an incentive to avoid work.

What kind of person would have any trouble figuring this out? (I mean, besides liberals and bureaucrats.)

Do you think they have problems getting it. This should have been a no brainer but never forget the power of the promise of

votes. They will need them in Nov and the more grateful the american citizen for the hand outs the more votes

[bonnie]

BONNIE

YES IT is sad when a person can make more money

with unemployment....but then if a person know

they can get money and not work there is little

insentive....

dgrimm60

I have heard others say the same. Two of my sons have each been trying to hire 10 men for their crews. Basically it is talk to me later when we see if we get another extension. One son has managed to hire four men.

This is not a minimum wage job either.

[karl]

BONNIE

I HATE to say this but if you had mexicans they

would work for sure

Not if they had managed to get on the dole somehow.

Again, the problem is that when government steals money from one segment of the population and gives it to another, it harms both segments. One segment is penalized for being productive and the other is rewarded for not being productive.

Why is it so hard for people to understand how evil this is?

[Dr. Shane]

A work visa program solves the problem. We let migrant workers come here and work for two years. They then have to go home before they can be eligible for another visa. Good hard workers that are willing to do the dirtiest of jobs for fair compensation.

[bonnie]

A work visa program solves the problem. We let migrant workers come here and work for two years. They then have to go home before they can be eligible for another visa. Good hard workers that are willing to do the dirtiest of jobs for fair compensation.

Stop payment for not working solves the problem as well

[Dr. Shane]

No, I think that digs us into a deeper hole. Democrats and Republicans agree on extending unemployment benefits during times of recession. Only those on the far fringe think it should be cut. Not extending benefits would be more home foreclosures, more car repossessions, more credit card defaults. It would hurt the financial system which hurts the economy. Basically, cutting unemployment benefits extends and deepens a recession. That is one thing that Democrats and Republicans agree on.

[bonnie]

No, I think that digs us into a deeper hole. Democrats and Republicans agree on extending unemployment benefits during times of recession. Only those on the far fringe think it should be cut. Not extending benefits would be more home foreclosures, more car repossessions, more credit card defaults. It would hurt the financial system which hurts the economy. Basically, cutting unemployment benefits extends and deepens a recession. That is one thing that Democrats and Republicans agree on.

Strange,here I thought if there was work to be had you take that instead of all the unemployment extensions.

Maybe 2750.00??? per week of unemployment spends better than that same amount that is a wage

[Dr. Shane]

If a man takes a job landscaping, that means he cannot look for a job doing whatever it is he was doing before. These types of jobs are low paying. A worker laid-off that was earning $25/hour isn't going to off from unemployment to work for $9 or $10/hour. Nor should he be expected to. He should look for work in the same pay scale of what he was making. That is reasonable.

We have plenty of migrant workers who can work those jobs and be happy to do so. Why make an American miserable in a job he doesn't want when a migrant would be happy and grateful?

[karl]

This is yet another way in which government programs stifle productivity in our nation.

People on unemployment don't want to take temprary work because if they go back on unemployment after the temporary job, their benefits will be calculated on the temporary job wages which are often less than what they were making at their regular job.

Always follow the money. In this case you can follow the money to the easy chairs which will be occupied until We The People forcibly remove these people from the teat they have been attached to.

It's your money. How do you want it spent?

[bonnie]

If a man takes a job landscaping, that means he cannot look for a job doing whatever it is he was doing before. These types of jobs are low paying. A worker laid-off that was earning $25/hour isn't going to off from unemployment to work for $9 or $10/hour. Nor should he be expected to. He should look for work in the same pay scale of what he was making. That is reasonable.

We have plenty of migrant workers who can work those jobs and be happy to do so. Why make an American miserable in a job he doesn't want when a migrant would be happy and grateful?

Bet he would if unemployment stopped after 26 weeks. It is not reasonable to expect your fellow taxpayers to keep paying your unemployment(welfare).

He should be expected to do honestly and legally whatever he can do to put food on the table.

Have a hot flash for you. My sons business in construction went bellyup. He worked for a landscaper.for 12.00 an hour. He also worked as a CNA part time.Taking night shifts for those that called in sick,working a double shift on Sun if he could

He kept searching sending out resume's till he found a job that would give him a reasonably close income to what he lost.

He made appointments on rain days or after his landscaping job. He is now making a little more than his previous income.

A physically capable person has no excuse for taking the money of others till all opportunities have been exhausted.

And then only as a safety net,not something that goes on for two years +

[doug yowell]

If a man takes a job landscaping, that means he cannot look for a job doing whatever it is he was doing before. These types of jobs are low paying. A worker laid-off that was earning $25/hour isn't going to off from unemployment to work for $9 or $10/hour. Nor should he be expected to. He should look for work in the same pay scale of what he was making. That is reasonable.

We have plenty of migrant workers who can work those jobs and be happy to do so. Why make an American miserable in a job he doesn't want when a migrant would be happy and grateful?

You mean illegal migrant workers, Shane? Illegal migrant workers also take plenty of $25an hour jobs and reduce them to $12-15 per hour jobs, many times these jobs go under the table. This reduces the number of $25 per hour jobs available to the American worker and the illegal migrant worker is happy and grateful to take them. Once the illegal workers have occupied those low paying jobs it forces the American worker to either work under the table,reducing the tax base and alienating them from future unemployment benefits, or out of the market completely because they cannot communicate effectively with their Spanish only coworkers.Your take on this is happy and idealistic but in many instances unrealistic.

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

Why make an American miserable in a job he doesn't want when a migrant would be happy and grateful?

Bet he would if unemployment stopped after 26 weeks.

Underemployment is a poor solution to unemployment.

[Dr. Shane]

You mean illegal migrant workers, Shane?

If we give them visas they will not be illegal.

[bonnie]

[Dr. Shane]

Underemployment makes it harder to find full employment. By encouraging underemployment we actually extend economic downturns. Both Democrats and Republicans understand that.

[Dr. Shane]

The debate over extending unemployment benefits isn't whether or not they should be extended. All but the fringe elements believe they should be extended. The debate is over how we pay for the benefits being extended.

[bonnie]

The debate over extending unemployment benefits isn't whether or not they should be extended. All but the fringe elements believe they should be extended. The debate is over how we pay for the benefits being extended.

I don't really care what the debate between the politicians is about. Anything after the original 26 weeks is welfare. Whether or not they can immediately find work at their previous salary should not be a requirement. Are they physically able? If they are they do not have a right to be a burden on others.My sons did not have the luxury of unemployment. They had no choice but to do what they did. Because of hard work and a refusal to be on welfare they are both doing very well.

Part of that is they do believe the bible instruction,If a man does not work,he doesn't eat

[Dr. Shane]

Thankfully our politicians actually care about us and getting the economy back on its feet.

[bonnie]

Thankfully our politicians actually care about us and getting the economy back on its feet.

I hope they don't decide to care to much more. The US economy can't handle to much of this type of caring

[Dr. Shane]

Time will tell. If the economy recovers with Obama in charge. I hope some of his critics here will have the integrity to give credit where credit is due.

[doug yowell]

Originally Posted By: doug yowell

You mean illegal migrant workers, Shane?

If we give them visas they will not be illegal.

If we give them a sizeable stipend before they leave their homes they won't need a visa.If we legalize drugs dealers and growers won't be criminals. If you don't like the immigration laws you can always work to change them. If you justify breaking the immigration restrictions because you don't feel they're fair, you're an accessory. If you knowingly hire an illegal you are a lawbreaker. If you do so because you feel justified in violating a law you don't like, you're above the law.

[Dr. Shane]

First, I am not advocating anyone breaking the law.

Second, the law we are talking about is crossing a boarder - a victimless crime.

Third, American industry wants to hire them. Migrant workers want to come here. The only reason they come, is because they are wanted.

Fourth, not all migrant workers are illegal. Many migrants have work permits or are permanent residents.

Fifth, comparing illegal border crossers to drug dealers obnoxious. A better comparison is comparing the illegal border crosser to a jay walker. These are victimless crimes.

[Woody]

Quote:

Second, the law we are talking about is crossing a boarder - a victimless crime

Oh my. How wrong can one be?

We all pay dearly for what these criminals are doing to us.

Surely you jest. Must be playing the Devil's advocate again?