FOUR YEARS. GO.

[SivartM]

[Dr. Shane]

Quote:

I think the Adventist church should join.

Are you aware of what the Adventist church is doing?

[SivartM]

Yes, and that's great. Just another reason we should join this effort.

[olger]

Travis thinks that the Adventist church should join Pachamama in their religion of deep ecology.

Ok. Here is a part of what we would be joining.

The Elm Dance

"It does not matter when in the music you begin the dance, except to start on a beat. The dance consists of four beats of movement, alternating with four beats of swaying in place. When swaying in place, imagine that you can feel the energy from the heart of the Earth spiraling up through the floor into your body. When the energy reaches the heart chakra, send it out for the healing of the elms and all beings. This is an act of intention. Anastasia Geng who created the dance from the Latvian song, said the purpose of the dance is for building strong intention."

Cathy's Circle

Honoring Our Pain in the World

I set the stage for the ritual and we had low lights and candles and pillows in the center of the circle. We began walking counterclockwise with people reporting some of the horrors that we live with on this planet. When emotions arose, people went into the center and screamed or cried or just sat as long as they needed to, then rejoined the outer circle that kept walking. I allowed this circle to go on for 20 to 30 minutes as people were really getting into it. At a good stopping place I had everyone stop, find a comfortable place to sit and close their eyes. I then led them in a guided meditation, connecting with energies of earth and sky, allowing them to feel whatever was on the surface and let it wash away. I then set the scenario that when they opened their eyes again, it would be fifty years hence and there had been many changes and miracles in the world and people were now living sustainable, in harmony and balance with all beings. We then all arose and began walking in the circle, this time in the opposite direction, and reporting on what life was like in this positive future from the personal to the collective. It was quite amazing what ensued. People reported things like they stayed home and tended gardens, lived close to loved ones in a small village, biked everywhere or shared alternative energy cars, drummed and danced and told stories each night by the fire, TV had gone extinct, cows were pets and not food, all produce was local and organic, governing bodies were teams, no more nuclear power, etc. etc. Some people danced with glee into the middle of the circle and laughed, some people cried at how much they wanted life to be like this. I allowed the same amount of time for this circle as the despair one. We ended by coming together in circler holding hands, closing eyes while I guided them to see our visions and energies spreading out over the planet and touching the consciousness of all beings. Then opening eyes and giving thanks for all that we had and for each person in the circle.

Engaged Buddism

"Every major faith and Earth wisdom tradition offers inner resources for social action. I am especially grateful to Buddhist teachings for the inspiration and guidance they have given to my life and work. The Buddha's central doctrine of the "dependent co-arising" reveals the dynamic interdependence of all phenomena. Its insight and practices help to free us from the prison cell of egocentricity, and from the greed, hatred, and delusion it engenders. The term Engaged Buddhism refers to the social application of these teachings, as they bring us into responsible and resilient relationship with the world around us."

Spirit Rock meditation Center. "Spirit Rock Meditation Center is intended to be a place that always looks in two directions: inward and outward.

Inwardly, as human beings we need settings where we can renew our connection to ourselves, to nature, and to life itself through silence and mindful attention. Outwardly, the modern world is in crisis on many fronts: environmental, economic, political, and psychological. Today, as always, the world needs more voices of understanding, more acts of generosity, and more of the spirit of peace. The purpose of Spirit Rock is to help each individual find within himself or herself peace, compassion, and wisdom, through the practice of mindfulness and insight meditation (vipassana), and to support the individual in taking those qualities into the world. We see Spirit Rock as a living mandala (a circle) whose central inspiration is the dharma, the deepest truth of life, beyond words and concepts. The outer expressions of the mandala are both reflections of the dharma and paths leading back to the dharma. The outer expressions, which are interdependent and support one another, include our programs and trainings in retreats, wise relationship, study, hermitage, service, and spiritual practices, in the world."

These are but a few of the guiding elements of Pachamama Alliance, which is the primary supporter of FOUR YEARS GO. You may decide if this is a direction that you want the Advent movement to go. The Emergent Church has already stepped over the line into mysticism/spiritualism, and this is yet another venue to consume your children.

Blessings,

og

[Guest]

I can't believe Travis thinks that og. Wait a minute. Yes I can.

[olger]

[SivartM]

Are you two serious? FOUR YEARS. GO. is a campaign started by not only the Pachamama Alliance but three other separate groups. Look around the website http://www.fouryearsgo.org and try to find where it tells people to practice spiritualism and mysticism.

Travis thinks that the Adventist church should join Pachamama in their religion of deep ecology.

I do not and you know it. I didn't even know about the Pachamama Alliance and it's still irrelevant to what I'm talking about. So don't spread lies about what I do or do not think.

[SivartM]

I can't believe Travis thinks that og. Wait a minute. Yes I can.

I can't believe that you and olger would go to such lengths to deride me. Wait a minute. Yes I can.

[olger]

About Us

"The impetus and initial stewardship for Four Years. Go. comes from a core group of four organizations. The Pachamama Alliance, as part of that group, has provided the funding for the initial development of Four Years. Go. and is acting as the initial fiscal sponsor for the initiative."

[Dr. Shane]

Don't let it get to you. Around here you just have to roll with the punches.

[SivartM]

Funding. Fiscal sponsor. It does not mean that they are promoting mysticism through this campaign. You have not found the evidence of spiritualism and mysticism on the FOUR YEARS. GO. website.

Why is it that every time I present an idea, you guys have to twist it and pick it apart and try to make me out to be a heretic? I'm getting sick of posting ideas to improve the world and then being treated like a villain. I said in my original post (but obviously not clearly enough for you) that if you were just going to trash the idea to not say anything. So if you're done mocking me, please just go away.

[phkrause]

Quote:

I think the Adventist church should join.

Are you aware of what the Adventist church is doing?

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I was gonna mention ADRA, than I saw your post Shane.

I like your thinking Sivart, but why don't they join us? We have been doing that for a much longer period of time.

[SivartM]

Because then it would have to become an Adventist campaign, which would be awkward since it's an interfaith thing.

Interfaith meaning that religious organizations join it. Not the other way around. :)

[phkrause]

Because then it would have to become an Adventist campaign, which would be awkward since it's an interfaith thing.

Interfaith meaning that religious organizations join it. Not the other way around.

Why? It would still be a joint venture! But in reality your probably right, because the Adventist church has been doing this for a much longer period of time than the others.

[SivartM]

I'm sure the other supporting organizations have also been doing humanitarian work for a long time too. You should look at the list.

FOUR YEARS. GO. isn't an organization itself, anyway. So I don't foresee any partnering with religious or non-religious organizations. :)

[olger]

I believe you are playing with fire in this FOUR YEARS.Go venture Travis. Here's why.

This website http://thinkingthis.com/blog/tag/occult-history/ lists 4YG on the right column - halfway down the page (recent posts).

This website "Mystics for Peace" http://www.mysticsforpeace.com/global-network.html lists 4YG as a recommended video.

http://freshnessfactorfivethousand.blogspot.com/2009/09/12-questions-season-8.html lists 4YG as a "fresh link" along with free will astrology etc..

http://www.greenwala.com/community/blogs...-Green-Religion has this to say "Who is Killing Christianity?" 2.22.10 - 2.25.10. Based on PlanetShifter.com Event Circle Interview with Bron Taylor, author of Dark Green Religion."

You can learn a lot about someone from who they associate with Travis (Proverbs 22:25). This dark green religion is more dark than green. Do with it what you wish. I recommend extreme caution and that you consult with your father or pastor before getting involved with this stuff.

og

[SivartM]

A number of organizations support 4YG, including Christian and secular ones. Just because someone links to a website, that does not mean that they are affiliated with it. Do you actually think that?

You obviously do not understand the point of this. You have still not shown me how 4YG is promoting spiritualism. So I suggest you do actual research or stop making recommendations.

[SivartM]

What if the next four years determined the next thousand? FOUR YEARS. GO. is a movement to change the course of history by 2014.

{Now, they don't mention global warming at all, so nobody here has any excuse to complain.)

There is a place on their website for organizations to show their support. I think the Adventist church should join. Do we want to make the world a better place or not? In fact, I think we should make it our concrete goal to tell the entire world about God's love by 2014. What do you guys think?

If you are going to say that it's just a bunch of idealistic unrealistic rubbish, then don't say anything at all. But I'd love to hear ideas for how we can integrate this into our lives.

Wow, SivartM. That's cool. I'm going to join in and help improve the lives of others. Let's discuss actions we can take to accomplish this.

[SivartM]

Wow, SivartM. That's cool. I'm going to join in and help improve the lives of others. Let's discuss actions we can take to accomplish this.

Thank you for your reply! I agree. I think one of the most important things we can do is to be kind and respectful to everyone, don't you agree?

[olger]

Travis, you stated that "FOUR YEARS GO" does not have any spiritualistic indicators (usually these land mines lie hidden under the surface). Here are a couple indicators from their website.

"The goal of Four Years. Go. is to cause a positive tipping point in unleashing humanity’s collective will, and to do it in the next four years. The evidence for this tipping point will be that by 14 February 2014, the probable future for humanity (i.e. the most likely case scenario forecast by the majority of global futures modelers) will be one of environmental sustainability, spiritual fulfillment, social justice—an evolutionary leap forward, a new future."

"The paradigm of a living universe is challenging our mindset of separation and re-establishing humanity’s deep inter-connection with all of nature."

This language, while somewhat cryptic to the casual reader is indicative of the New Age and mystic soul of its founder Pachamama Alliance. As revealed earlier.

[SivartM]

I asked for naysayers to please keep their criticisms out of the conversation. I don't care so much that you disagree with me but I really don't appreciate you hijacking this thread to try to spread fear.

If you even care (which I doubt), my goal which I posted on the website was, "I will tell everyone that there is a God who loves them." I'm sure you'll find something to disagree with in that too, so don't even mention it.

[olger]

Well sure, Travis. You are welcome to it.

God's love good.

Mysticism not.

[Dr. Shane]

There are not too many organizations outside of the Adventist church that I support. I only have a finite number of dollars so I am very careful where I donate them. I do support the Salvation Army and Care Net. There is some overlap between Adventist Community Services and the Salvation Army but the Salvation Army helps out the homeless on a scale much larger than the Adventist church does and Ellen White mentioned them for their good work. Care Net runs Crisis Pregnancy Centers which is a work the Adventist church is not doing. That said, the amount of dollars I give to those causes is quite small compared to what I give the Adventist associated ministries.

Club Adventist is a ministry itself that is often in need of funds. I was planning to give a gift last week but discovered two tires chewed up and a front-end out of alignment so that gift has been moved to this week.

[nuff sed]

While the Salvation Army does help the homeless they do not do as much as I would like. They were always sending people for help to our little church thrift shop when they needed clothing, furniture, household goods. The only time the SA would help a family was if their house had burned down. It kind of made me mad. They had two or three thrift shops, each of which was about ten times the size of ours and they had the gall to send people to US for help. Yes, they do have homeless shelters and they do feed some. nuff sed

[Dr. Shane]

In the area where I live the SA provides two meals a day for the homeless but does not feed any that smell of alcohol. In the little town I went to college in the SA fed the homeless once a day. I suspect the services they provide depends on the area they are in. I do believe ADRA is a great place to donate money.