Resolving the "R" word..

[olger]

Rebellion.

For many of us the word conjures up images of headbands, beards, and long greasy hair resting on the colorful collars of tie-dyed shirts. Or it may encapsulate loud music, spitting on American soldiers in the 70’s, and the cultural pathos of a dead James Dean, immortalized in his love of fast cars and wrong moral choices. Hardly virtues worthy of admiration…

But there is a more subtle kind of rebellion. This is manifested in a child when he (or she) begins testing his parents at a young age. Later on it blooms into full-blown defiance during the teen years. Then as an adult it yields the unpeaceable fruits of unrighteousness, following him/her around their whole life – until the rebellious spirit is broken by God.

As a young man I experienced rebellion in my life, and I am grateful to God for two things: Revealing the problem, and leading me to Biblical freedom.

We live in a time when it is the norm to be independent of all types of authority. People want to make their own decisions and direct their own lives. Submission to authority is not respected. This tendency has caused serious spiritual problems in people's lives destroying many marriages.

A rebellious attitude toward authority produces negative consequences. Rebellion causes people to resent and reject correction. Anytime a directive is received, it triggers an internal reaction to do the opposite of what should be done. If rebellion is not dealt with, decisions will be made based on a reaction to being told what to do. An adult who responds in this way may still be reacting to negative patterns established in childhood.

Rebellion gives ground to the enemy. In the same way that a person gives ground to the enemy through participating in witchcraft or occult activities (I Samuel 15:23), ground is given to the enemy through rebellion. It opens the door for the enemy to control our lives.

Rebellion leads to unmet needs. In Psalm 68:6, David describes the rebellious as living in a dry land. Those with rebellious hearts will always have unmet needs. They are constantly reacting to others and are never able to enjoy life or relationships.

God exerts pressure on us to break our rebellion. I Samuel 12:15 states, "If you rebel against the Lord ... then the hand of the Lord will be against you." Because God cannot use someone who exhibits a rebellious spirit, He seeks to uproot it and will often use calamity (Proverbs 1:24-25) or other measures to bring that person to a place of usefulness to Himself. A reaction against the authority of others is an indication of rebellion against God's authority.

God has established boundaries to protect us. The principles in God's Word are given to protect us and to lead us into lives of fulfillment and joy. God designed the world to operate smoothly according to His rules, but if these rules are violated, life becomes chaotic. In the same way, a basketball game would be chaotic if each player made up his own rules. Respecting and submitting to the rules actually makes it more fun.

Submission brings peace and fulfillment in relationships. Submission means yielding our personal rights. It is a lie of Satan that we have the right to be independent of authority. God designed authority to be exercised in our relationship to the family, to church and to government. Our responsibility is to submit with a proper attitude unless the authority violates the principles in God's Word. Humbly submitting to God and to those He places over us leads us to experience the peace, joy and fulfillment of His design.

Rebellion almost always leads to Moral failure. 99.9% of rebellious people will involve themselves in moral failure. There is a reason for this that can be explained later…

So what do you think? Is a little rebellion good to have around, like a cache of gold under the mattress? Is it a problem in your world? Your church? Your life? How can a person get free from it?

oG

[Liz]

I think it depends on what one is rebelling against. You start out by talking a little about social rebelling and then end up with Spiritual rebellion. Obviously Spiritual rebellion isn't a good thing; but then the USA was founded by a bunch of rebels.

[SivartM]

I think it depends on what one is rebelling against. You start out by talking a little about social rebelling and then end up with Spiritual rebellion. Obviously Spiritual rebellion isn't a good thing; but then the USA was founded by a bunch of rebels.

I agree. And Christianity, the Protestant Reformation, and the Adventist church were all started by rebels.

[olger]

The USA was founded by men of integrity who desired freedom, and were willing to work for it. This thread isn't looking for ways to justify what God has condemned.

"An evil man seeketh only rebellion: therefore a cruel messenger shall be sent against him" (Proverbs 17:11).

go forward,

oG

[Neil D]

Quote:

A rebellious attitude toward authority produces negative consequences. Rebellion causes people to resent and reject correction. Anytime a directive is received, it triggers an internal reaction to do the opposite of what should be done. If rebellion is not dealt with, decisions will be made based on a reaction to being told what to do. An adult who responds in this way may still be reacting to negative patterns established in childhood.

Rebellion gives ground to the enemy. In the same way that a person gives ground to the enemy through participating in witchcraft or occult activities (I Samuel 15:23), ground is given to the enemy through rebellion. It opens the door for the enemy to control our lives.

So when you are making snide comments about Obama, our president, you are saying that it leads to a moral failure on your part....I can live with that...can you?

[Woody]

Praise God for rebels. For I will always be a rebel for Jesus and HIS Truth.

[Neil D]

According to Olger, you are heading toward moral failure...along with all the others who rebel against Obama's authority....

....I knew it...I just knew it...You guys are heading toward that hot place and there's nothing you can do unless you accept Obama's authority as President..

...that's according to one of your own conservative Republicans, Redwood...

[Woody]

Quote:

"You guys are heading toward that hot place"

Wait a minute. If we are talking about spiritual matters ... please don't lump me with OG. But if we are talking politics ... I remain strongly in his camp.

So PLEASE clarify what ye be talkin' about.

[olger]

Neither Red-wood or olger has lead a pitchfork-weilding torchlit mob to Pennsylvania Avenue, Neil. We can have opinions without being anarchists. So you can cheerfully set aside your political non-sequitur, and address the spiritual issue of rebellion in hopes of staying on topic.

THANKS,

og

[SivartM]

Can Christians have opinions without being heretics?

[abelisle]

If the book of Job was the 1st book written as some scholars say, then Job is a study in dissension - maybe not outright rebellion but a strong questioning of the ways of God.

God even encourages Job to question Him. What we find out in the end is that as finite beings, our efforts to question God and His ways fall short and we must rely on our faith.

Job's friends, on the other hand, didn't quite pass muster with God.

Rebellion with an honest questioning spirit is one thing. Outright rebellion knowing that what you're doing is wrong is another.

Alex

[phkrause]

If the book of Job was the 1st book written as some scholars say, then Job is a study in dissension - maybe not outright rebellion but a strong questioning of the ways of God.

God even encourages Job to question Him. What we find out in the end is that as finite beings, our efforts to question God and His ways fall short and we must rely on our faith.

Job's friends, on the other hand, didn't quite pass muster with God.

Rebellion with an honest questioning spirit is one thing. Outright rebellion knowing that what you're doing is wrong is another.

Alex

I agree

[olger]

Rebellion with an honest questioning spirit is one thing.

That isn't rebellion, just simple seeking after truth (Jeremiah 29:12-13).

This is rebellion "That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits" (Isaiah 30:9-10).

blessings,

og

[abelisle]

Originally Posted By: a belisle

Rebellion with an honest questioning spirit is one thing.

That isn't rebellion, just simple seeking after truth (Jeremiah 29:12-13).

This is rebellion "That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD: Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits" (Isaiah 30:9-10).

blessings,

og

That's just a Biblical description of the actions of a "rebellious people".

A dictionary definition is:

1 : opposition to one in authority or dominance

2 a : open, armed, and usually unsuccessful defiance of or resistance to an established government b : an instance of such defiance or resistance

So, if God is the authority figure and we question Him , we are technically in rebellion.

Isn't that what Lucifer did - question God's authority?

Alex

[Bravus]

I think the point is a key one, and agree with you, olger, that it is a fundamental issue for right now.

You do seem to be defining all the things you dislike as 'rebellion' and applying some other word to all the things you approve of. That's OK, and I'm not having a go, just trying to enter into the discussion and define our terms.

In your opinion, then, is there any such thing as 'righteous rebellion'? Not against God, obviously, but against human structures and systems. Luther in the Reformation, for example. Or, if it's righteous, is it automatically defined as something other than rebellion?

I guess the underlying issue is the authenticity of authority: rebellion (or whatever word you prefer) against illegitimate authority can be righteous, but rebellion against legitimate authority never is. Fair paraphrase of your position?

The challenge, as always, is one of discerning which is which...

[olger]

I see your point David. Perhaps resistance, evocative of James 4:7 is applicable.

Elsewhere we are called to "stand fast," which will place the believer at variance with evil, and the world system.

og

[olger]

I think it depends on what one is rebelling against. You start out by talking a little about social rebelling and then end up with Spiritual rebellion. Obviously Spiritual rebellion isn't a good thing; but then the USA was founded by a bunch of rebels.

Social rebellion and spiritual rebellion are the same root problem in the heart.

og

[Guest]

The R word? Are ya'll talkin about me?

[Woody]

Well ... you ARE a rebellious soul.

[Guest]

You could say I know a little something about it.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I think *sometimes* Social rebellion is good (i.e., when Rosa Parks refused to give up her bus seat to a white man), whereas outright Spiritual rebellion is not. I say "outright" because I don't think it is wrong to get angry about some things that God lets happen. I pound on God's chest a lot. But He understands.

[Woody]

Quote:

I pound on God's chest a lot. But He understands

AMEN

[Liz]

Social rebellion and spiritual rebellion are the same root problem in the heart.

og

I don't believe that for a moment. Generally speaking one rebels against society if something is wrong. So William Wilberforce was wrong to be a social rebel? Jesus rebelled against the temple leaders, and society when he threw the money changers out--for that had become quite the norm for that period of time. Jesus again rebelled against the temple leaders when he healed on the Sabbath--giant huge no no at a time when walking was measured in feet, couldn't carry a handkerchief, and spiting on the ground was forbidden least you accidently water something.

[Woody]

[phkrause]

Quote:

I pound on God's chest a lot. But He understands

AMEN

I second that