Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Let's look at what the Bible means when it calls Jesus "the Son of God." Does it mean Jesus is literally the Son of God? We know that the title "Son of God" does not indicate inferiority to the Father. Nor does it indicate that Christ obtained His existence from the Father, as human sons do from their fathers. The phrase, "son of..." can refer to "offspring" in some contexts (Rev. 22: 16), but it actually carries the more impotant meaning of "of the order of." It's often used this way in the Old Testament. For instance, "sons of the prophets" (1 Kings 20: 35) meant "of the order of prophets." "Sons of the singers" (Neh. 12: 28) meant "of the order of singers." In Luke 10: 6, "a son of peace" means a man who is "of the order of peace." Likewise, the phrase "Son of God" means "of the order of God," and represents a claim to undiminished deity. "Son of" was used by the ancient Semetics and Orientals to indicate likeness or sameness of nature and equality of being. The Jews recognized this when Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. They knew that He was not claiming to be mere a son, an inferior god, but that Jesus was claiming to be God, equal with the Father. See John 19: 7; 5: 18-- John 19:7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die because he has made himself the Son of God." John 5:18 This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. (NOTE: Jesus was not breaking the Sabbath according to the law of God, but He was ceraintly breaking it according to the Jewish laws.) Jesus Christ was both Son of God and Son of Adam (man). Was Jesus literally the Son of Adam? No. But Jesus was of the order of God as well as of the order of Adam, or man. Therefore Jesus was indeed the Son of God and the Son of man, but it's important to understand what the Bible means by applying those titles to Christ. Jesus has many titles that cannot be understood literally. Among these are: 1) The Lamb of God. (Is He liteally a lamb?) 2) The Alpha and the Omega (Is He literally a letter of the Greek alphabet?) 3) The Word of God (Is He literally a word?) 4) The Root of David (Is He literally a root?) 5) Lion of the tribe of Judah (Is He literally a lion?) Again, is Jesus literally a "son of God"? No. Rather, Jesus Christ is of the order of God since He is in fact God, the third Person of the eternal Godhead. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 12, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 12, 2010 Is Christ's life "original, unborrowed and underived"? What does this mean? Let's look at some verses that are said to teach that the pre-existent Christ derived His existence and life from the Father: "As the Father has life in Himself SO He has given to the Son to have life in Himself" John 5:26 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person" Heb 1:2 "As he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they." Heb 1:4 First look carefully at the context of John 5: 26. John 5:19-47 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. [20] For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. [21] For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. [22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: [23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. [24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. [25] Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. [26] For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; [27] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. [28] Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, [29] And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. [30] I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. [31] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [32] There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true. [33] Ye sent unto John, and he bare witness unto the truth. [34] But I receive not testimony from man: but these things I say, that ye might be saved. [35] He was a burning and a shining light: and ye were willing for a season to rejoice in his light. [36] But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. [37] And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [38] And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. [39] Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. [40] And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. [41] I receive not honour from men. [42] But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. [43] I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. [44] How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? [45] Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. [46] For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. [47] But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Notice in the above, we have the following points: 1) The Son can do nothing of himself 2) The Father shows the Son all things 3) The Father hath committed all judgment unto the Son 4) Just like the Father has life in Himself, in the same way hath he given to the Son to have life in himself. 5)The Father hath given him authority to execute judgment 6) I can of mine own self do nothing: 7) The Father hath given me "the works" to finish 8) Jesus said, "I am come in my Father's name" CONCLUSION: Jesus is speaking in all of the above as He is on this earth. He is not explaining what happened in heaven, nor is Jesus telling the disbelieving Jews how He came into being. The above evidence shows that Jesus' words in John 5: 26 have reference to Christ on this earth and are not an explanation of how He came into existence in heaven. For instance, Jesus certainly did not mean that in heaven, He could do nothing on His own. In John chapter 5 Jesus wants the Jews to understand clearly that He has come in the name of Yahweh, not in the name of Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter, the son of Mary and Joseph. We know this conclusion must be right because we have the following clear testimony: John 1:4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men. John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. (Compare LXX at Ex. 3: 14.) NOTE: Christ is actually the I AM, that is, Jehovah. Jehovah is eternal, everlasting, self-existent. 1 John 1:1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; [2] (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;) [3] That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. NOTE: Jesus Christ is referred to here as "the life" and "that eternal life." 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. NOTE: Jesus Christ is "the true God and eternal life." Rev. 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. The following passages from Ellen White strongly support the view that John 5: 26 is referring to the Son as the God-Man, as He existed on this earth: The world was made by him, "and without him was not anything made that was made." If Christ made all things, he existed before all things. The words spoken in regard to this are so decisive that no one need be left in doubt. Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore. . . . {7ABC 438.1} NOTE: Jesus Christ is God in the highest sense, God from all eternity, God over all--- meaning He is God Almighty. He is indeed equal with the Father in every sense of the word. Continued Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
Moderators John317 Posted July 13, 2010 Author Moderators Posted July 13, 2010 Continued The identity and meaning of "the Son of God" Jehovah, the eternal, self-existent, uncreated One, Himself the source and sustainer of all, is alone entitled to supreme reverence and worship.--Patriarchs and Prophets, p. 305. {7ABC 439.2} NOTE: the above has reference to entire Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, for all three Persons of the eternal Godhead are called Jehovah, and God, in the Bible. See Rev. 15: 3; 1: 8. Jehovah is the name given to Christ. "Behold, God is my salvation," writes the prophet Isaiah; "I will trust, and not be afraid; for the Lord Jehovah is my strength and my song; He also is become my salvation. Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation. And in that day ye shall say, Praise the Lord, call upon His name, declare His doings among the people, make mention that His name is exalted." "In that day shall this song be sung in the land of Judah: We have a strong city; salvation will God appoint for walls and bulwarks. Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in. Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee, because he trusteth in Thee. Trust ye in the Lord forever; for in the Lord Jehovah is everlasting strength."--The Signs of the Times, May 3, 1899, p. 2. {7ABC 439.3} The heavenly gates are again to be lifted up, and with ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands of holy ones, our saviour will come forth as King of kings and Lord of lords. Jehovah Immanuel "shall be King over all the earth; in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one."--Thoughts From the Mount of Blessing, p. 160. {7ABC 439.4} NOTE: cf. Rev. 17: 14; 19: 16; 1 Tim 6: 15; Deut. 10: 17; Ps. 136: 3; Is. 40: 10. This is the reward of all who follow Christ. Jehovah Emmanuel --He "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge," in whom dwells "all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:3, 9)....-- {7ABC 439, 440} If men reject the testimony of the inspired Scriptures concerning the deity of Christ, it is in vain to argue the point with them; for no argument, however conclusive, could convince them. "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Corinthians 2:14. None who hold this error can have a true conception of the character or the mission of Christ, or of the great plan of God for man's redemption.--Ibid., p. 524. {7ABC 440.2} The Lord Jesus Christ, the divine Son of God, existed from eternity, a distinct person, yet one with the Father. He was the surpassing glory of heaven. He was the commander of the heavenly intelligences, and the adoring homage of the angels was received by him as his right. This was no robbery of God.--The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906, p. 8. {7ABC 440.3} In speaking of His pre-existence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him.--The Signs of the Times, Aug. 29, 1900. {7ABC 440.4} From all eternity Christ was united with the Father, and when He took upon Himself human nature, He was still one with God.--The Signs of the Times, Aug. 2, 1905, p. 10. When Christ passed within the heavenly gates, He was enthroned amidst the adoration of the angels. As soon as this ceremony was completed, the Holy Spirit descended upon the disciples in rich currents, and Christ was indeed glorified, even with the glory which He had with the Father from all eternity.--The Acts of the Apostles, pp. 38, 39. {7ABC 441.1} From the days of eternity the Lord Jesus Christ was one with the Father; He was "the image of God," the image of His greatness and majesty, "the outshining of His glory."--The Desire of Ages, p. 19. {7ABC 441.4} Christ was God essentially, and in the highest sense. He was with God from all eternity, God over all, blessed forevermore.-- The Review and Herald, April 5, 1906, p. 8. {7ABC 441.6} The name of God, given to Moses to express the idea of the eternal presence, had been claimed as His own by this Galilean Rabbi. He had announced Himself to be the self-existent One, He who had been promised to Israel, "whose goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity." Micah 5:2, margin. --The Desire of Ages, pp. 469, 470. {7ABC 441.7} In it [God's Word] we may learn what our redemption has cost Him who from the beginning was equal with the Father.-- Counsels to Parents and Teachers, p. 13. {7ABC 441.8} From Jesus is our life derived. In him is life that is original,--unborrowed, underived life. In him is the fountain of life. In us there is a streamlet from the fountain of life. Our life is something that we receive, something that the Giver takes back again to himself. If our life is hid with Christ in God, we shall, when Christ shall appear, also appear with him in glory. And while in this world, we shall give to God, in sanctified service, all the capabilities he has given us. . . . {RH, August 6, 1914 par. 1} Still seeking to give a true direction to her faith, Jesus declared, "I am the resurrection, and the life." In Christ is life, original, unborrowed, underived. "He that hath the Son hath life." 1 John 5:12. The divinity of Christ is the believer's assurance of eternal life. "He that believeth in Me," said Jesus, "though he were dead, yet shall he live: and whosoever liveth and believeth in Me shall never die. Believest thou this?" Christ here looks forward to the time of His second coming. Then the righteous dead shall be raised incorruptible, and the living righteous shall be translated to heaven without seeing death. The miracle which Christ was about to perform, in raising Lazarus from the dead, would represent the resurrection of all the righteous dead. By His word and His works He declared Himself the Author of the resurrection. He who Himself was soon to die upon the cross stood with the keys of death, a conqueror of the grave, and asserted His right and power to give eternal life. {DA 530.3} "Before Abraham was, I am." Christ is the preexistent, self-existent Son of God. The message He gave to Moses to give to the children of Israel was, "Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." {LHU 17.4} Through Solomon Christ declared: "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. . . . When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him." {LHU 17.6} NOTE: In Prov. 8: 22, (a) Did God the Father literally have a "beginning of His way"? ( Notice the word "as [like]," which shows that it is not to be taken literally. It is to be understood as a simile, a comparison. © The phrase "the Lord possessed me" means "constituted". Christ is the foundation of all of God's works. This is the same message as found in John 1: 1-3; Col. 1: 15-17; Hebrews 1: 2, 3; Rev. 3: 14. (Jehovah's Witnesses understand it to mean "created," but we both know this is not true of Christ. Nor is it true of Wisdom. If so, it would mean God at one time lacked wisdom.) Please notice how Ellen White says we are to "possess" Christ: This is the reward of all who follow Christ. Jehovah Emmanuel --He "in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge," in whom dwells "all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" (Col. 2:3, 9)--to be brought into sympathy with Him, to know Him, to possess Him, as the heart opens more and more to receive His attributes; to know His love and power, to possess the unsearchable riches of Christ, to comprehend more and more "what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God" (Eph. 3:18, 19)--"This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord, and their righteousness is of Me, saith the Lord."--Ibid., p. 57. {7ABC 439, 440} In speaking of His preexistence, Christ carries the mind back through dateless ages. He assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God. He to whose voice the Jews were then listening had been with God as one brought up with Him. {LHU 17.7} He was equal with God, infinite and omnipotent. . . . He is the eternal, self-existent Son (manuscript 101, 1897). {LHU 17.9} NOTE: 1) I don't know how we can say Christ has been God from all eternity if there was a point when Christ did not exist. If that were the case-- that is, if Christ had a beginning from any source outside Himself-- it wouldn't be ALL eternity and Christ could not be called "self-existent." If we believe this is not true, then we have to say that perhaps the Father also has a beginning, because everything predicated of the pre-existent Christ is also predicated of the Father. This is precisely the meaning of verses such as Heb. 1: 3 and John 1: 1, etc. The latter verse tells us that what the Father was, the Word was. He is in every way equal with the Father. 2) I don't believe it's possible to say that Christ's life and existence is "eternal, original, and underived" if it is derived from the Father at some point in eternity past. 3) Since Christ is "the eternal, self-existent One," "God essentially and in the highest sense," I don't believe we can we say that Christ owes his existence to the Father. 4) Since Christ "assures us that there never was a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God," how can we say that there was indeed a time when He was not in close fellowship with the eternal God? Does the "eternal God" have a beginning? The only possible answer is, of course, NO. Then neither did the "eternal, self-existent One" who was always in close fellowship with "the eternal God." These clear statements, together with the Bibe verses quoted above, are very stong evidence that we're correct in understanding John 5: 26 to refer to Jesus Christ as He was on earth, as a man, NOT as an explanation of the origin of His life. I believe the context of those verses also show this to be true. Quote John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. [17] For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
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