Ordination Issue Takes a New Turn

[CGMedley]

During the GC session there were new developments in the ordination issue. The delegates voted to delete the term "deaconess" from the Church Manual. Adventist leaders also pledged to conduct a comprehensive study on theology of ordination. Read more.

http://www.adventistreview.org/article.php?id=3625

What do you think of these developments.

[abelisle]

This was mentioned before on another thread and I'll repeat what I said there: the committee will come back with a statement that since ordination isn't significantly mentioned in the Bible (exactly what it entails) and especially concerning women, they will leave it up to the discretion of individual unions and conferences to decide.

This way the GC leaves an out for themselves since conservative conferences will simply vote it down and the more progressive ones might allow it.

Alex

[John317]

I think it's important for all Seventh-day Adventists to keep an open mind on the issues and give the GC a fair opportunity to present the biblical evidence. Let's study and pray about what the committee has to say before judging them or their decisions.

[Taylor]

Agreed.

[Overaged]

I will look forward to reading their study when completed; however, one thing I don't get is when they said "deaconess" or "ordination" are not mentioned "significantly" in the Bible! If it's in the Bible it has to be significant?

Sometimes, "theology" and "bible" are two different things. I hope they can support the one with the other.

[Gregory Matthews]

Overaged said:

Quote:

If it's in the Bible it has to be significant?

Do your really believe that everything in the Bible is significant?

Paul in writing to the church of the Thessalonians said:

Quote:

Greet all the brothers with a holy kiss. I Thessalonians 5:26

Compared to the Biblical themes of salvation, is that a significant verse?

[Overaged]

Overaged said:

quote]If it's in the Bible it has to be significant?/quote]

Do your really believe that everything in the Bible is significant?

Paul in writing to the church of the Thessalonians said:

Gregory; my question was making a serious point. Some will take it seriously, and I guess some won't. I don't know if you are intending to or not; but you are sounding some some sort of atheisic trickster; out to stump a Bible thumper. God did not ever intend for people to throw His Word around like your post just did. Perhaps, if you are carrying this same "hermeneutic" to the ordination debate; we can therein find some clue as to why it is even an issue.

I don't mean this disrespectfully or personally, but your post smells of a "trap" that has no basis for discerning God's Word. I will let you explain to people why that text is or isn't "important."

[Gregory Matthews]

Overaged:

I appreciate your responding with your perception of my question to you.

While my example was trite, my question was very serious. It was serious because I take the Bible seriously.

I understand the Bible to make many comments that are brief and not developed. I typically of that as happening in cases where the comment is not related to an issue that is important to our salvation. One such example is Job 1:6. People have discussed the meaning of that verse. I can say that the Bible does not make a substantial comment on what that verse means.

I intentionally illustrated my question with a trite example because I did not want you to respond with a comment to the effect that my example (such as Jobe 1:6) was a substantial comment.

The questions as to what the Bible says about "ordination" in general and about ordination and women are important. However, when I use the term "Ordination" I see it a bit differently than the Biblical term "laying on of hands."

Personally, I think that on some aspects of these issues, the Bible does not make substantial comment and God expects us to develop the answers with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I was uncertain as to your meaning when your responded and I asked you my question. But, I was very serious and not intending to treat the subject lightly. I hope this clears up the meaning of my question to you.

[Overaged]

I intentionally illustrated my question with a trite example because I did not want you to respond with a comment to the effect that my example (such as Jobe 1:6) was a substantial comment.

The questions as to what the Bible says about "ordination" in general and about ordination and women are important. However, when I use the term "Ordination" I see it a bit differently than the Biblical term "laying on of hands."

Personally, I think that on some aspects of these issues, the Bible does not make substantial comment and God expects us to develop the answers with the help of the Holy Spirit.

I was uncertain as to your meaning when your responded and I asked you my question. But, I was very serious and not intending to treat the subject lightly. I hope this clears up the meaning of my question to you.

[teresaq]

I will look forward to reading their study when completed; however, one thing I don't get is when they said "deaconess" or "ordination" are not mentioned "significantly" in the Bible! If it's in the Bible it has to be significant?

Sometimes, "theology" and "bible" are two different things. I hope they can support the one with the other.

perhaps it means that the bible didnt make such a big deal of it as we are doing.

[Overaged]

quote=Overaged]I will look forward to reading their study when completed; however, one thing I don't get is when they said "deaconess" or "ordination" are not mentioned "significantly" in the Bible! If it's in the Bible it has to be significant?

Sometimes, "theology" and "bible" are two different things. I hope they can support the one with the other. /quote]perhaps it means that the bible didnt make such a big deal of it as we are doing.

Well, OK. This is a good example of what I am getting at. The theology you are proposing says: "Perhaps it means that the Bible didn't make such a big deal out of it as we are doing."

What I was saying, was that everything in the Bible is important, and that is a different theology by which to approach the ordination issue, than what your statement implied.

I believe that "ordination" is mentioned in the Bible because it is important. I do not see "ordination" as being in the Bible; and yet "not such a big deal." God had a reason for putting that in there; and just because it is not mentioned as agressively as certain other things; it does not always follow that it is not important."

But, maybe it's important for reasons which we have not yet thought about?

[teresaq]

i understand there are different original words which are translated "ordained"...that could be a start in seeing what the importance is.

i didnt mean to imply that it wasnt important, just that what we are doing with "ordination" may have little or nothing to do with what the bible writers meant.

Quote:

Sometimes, "theology" and "bible" are two different things. I hope they can support the one with the other.

oh, and i so agree!! it seems the fiercest defenders of some "doctrine" really have only the most superficial understanding of it.

[Neil D]

Teresa and Overage

It seems to me, that your insistance on following biblical examples, while commendable, has a flaw in it.

We are commended to become "children of God"...and where God and relationships are concerned, Love is the overriding principle that governs our actions.

If we follow the examples only, we will never become the fully loving people in that we will always be looking for an example to apply to different situations. Jesus never talked to the diciples about how the church was to be set up, and ordered. At least, we have no record of Him talking about that....And yet, we do have, on record, Him talking about relationships and how to treat everyone fairly.

Every one of your biblical examples also serve as principles for the best loving relationship. That is why we have "deacons"...and before the book of Acts, we had no record of 'deacon'...

And if you can follow my logic, you will see that we need more study in relationships to apply loving principles in group situation than finding examples to apply to situations.....