Question Please

[OzarkWoman]

I have been told by the head elder of the church we attend, we are not members yet, that to be considered a Remnant church there must be a prophet and prophecies. Is this true? If so, where in the Bible does it state that please?

[fccool]

This comes from interpreting Rev. 19:10, in a certain way that I believe is unwarranted by scripture. Whenever you see the "Spirit of" in the Bible, it's attributed to God.

* Spirit of Wisdom - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of Understanding - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of Counsel - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of Power - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of Knowledge - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of the Fear of the Lord - Isa. 11:2

* Spirit of Judgment - Isa. 28:6

* Spirit of the Lord - Micah 2:7

* Spirit of Grace - Zech. 12:10

* Spirit of Supplications - Zech. 12:10

* Spirit of God - Matt. 3:16

* Spirit of Your Father - Matt. 10:20

* Spirit of Truth - John 14:17

* Spirit of Jesus - Acts 16:7

* Spirit of Holiness - Rom. 1:4

* Spirit of Life - Rom. 8:2

* Spirit of Christ - Rom. 8:9

* Spirit of Adoption - Rom. 8:15

* Spirit of the Living God - 2 Cor. 3:3

* Spirit of His Son - Gal. 4:6

* Spirit of Promise - Eph. 1:13

* Spirit of Wisdom - Eph. 1:17

* Spirit of Revelation - Eph. 1:17

* Spirit of Jesus Christ - Phil. 1:19

* Spirit of Power - 2 Tim. 1:7

* Spirit of Love - 2 Tim. 1:7

* Spirit of Grace - Heb. 10:29

* Spirit of Glory - 1 Pet. 4:14

* Spirit of Prophecy - Rev. 19:10

The Bible uses "Spirit of ..." to describe the attributes of God and His Spirit. Spirit of Prophecy refers to an attribute of God and His inerrant ability to foresee the future events.

Hence the testimony of Christ, the very thing that He gave to people as a proof that He is God incarnate was the prophecies fulfilled in Him. This is the immediate, and correct context of Rev. 19:10. You can understand and clearly see it from other uses of this phrase by John in Revelation.

[John] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw. Rev. 1:2

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held.

nd they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. ... And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:11, 17

Which leads to the final statement of:

Revelation 19:10:

...I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

This verse does not stand on its own. John understands exactly what it's talking about, and it's certainly not talking about a person who will appear two thousand years after this event with a prophetic gift.

Other commentary translations are correctly putting this verse in its proper context:

The prophetic spirit proves itself by witnessing to Jesus. (New American Bible)

Testimony to Jesus is the spirit which underlies Prophecy. (Weymouth New Testament)

Those who bear testimony to Jesus are inspired like all the prophets. (New English Bible)

The purpose of all prophecy and of all I have shown you is to tell about Jesus. (Living Bible)

The testimony of Christ refers to your personal testimony. It's as simple as that. Interpreting the "testimony = Spirit of Prophecy = Ellen White" is to interpret this text out of it's proper place, which is all prophecy points to Christ, just like all Christian Testimony point to Christ.

Your testimony is an unwritten chapter in the Biblical narrative. That's why John pairs it up... Word of God, and thus it is a Testimony of Christ through you, which is a Spirit behind all prophecy about Him.

The obvious problem with self-ascription mentality is as that elder pointed out, Ellen White is no longer alive. That's why some would think that we need another prophet to get back that status of remnant church.

The remnant church is not a denomination. Believe it, or not, it refers to all believers alive at that point of time (hence the name remnant) who keep the commandments of God (only believers would do that), and are persecuted because of the "witness" or "testimony" that they live out. These words used interchangeably in the Bible.

Revelation 20:4 - I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness [marturia same word that is translated as testimony] of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Remnant church is exactly that... the church that REMAINS at that point of time. It's obviously not referring to a physical church denomination, because denomination membership is not equal to the true church membership.

No amount of carpet remnant analogies will do, especially when taken from context of our understanding about the meaning of remnant.

[LifeHiscost]

I have been told by the head elder of the church we attend, we are not members yet, that to be considered a Remnant church there must be a prophet and prophecies. Is this true? If so, where in the Bible does it state that please?

The fact that the Word does use servants and prophets in the plural seems to indicate more than one and possibly many that would be given this most important gift, especially when their are so many false prophets in the religious world today.

Let love be your highest goal! But you should also desire the special abilities the Spirit gives—especially the ability to prophesy.1 Corinthians 14:2 NLT

“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves.

Matthew 7:15 NLT

"And the LORD hath sent unto you all his servants the prophets, rising early and sending them; but ye have not hearkened, nor inclined your ear to hear. "Jer 25:5 KJV

"We have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. "Daniel 9:10 NKJV

"Indeed, the Sovereign Lord never does anything until he reveals his plans to his servants the prophets."

Amos 3:7 NLT

"Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Amos 3:7 KJV

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."Revelation 10:7 KJV

Blessings!

[fccool]

Quote:

The fact that the Word does use servants and prophets in the plural seems to indicate more than one and possibly many that would be given this most important gift, especially when their are so many false prophets in the religious world today.

How many officially recognized true prophets do we have worldwide alive today? If there are none, then why not, since there are no shortage of false ones?

Doesn't God care about us knowing the truth. If prophets came to correct and rebuke, then why not now, when correction and rebuke is needed the most with the direct word from God.

OR

Could it be that what we have today is in fact ...

is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness...?

[Neil D]

How many officially recognized true prophets do we have worldwide alive today? If there are none, then why not, since there are no shortage of false ones?

Doesn't God care about us knowing the truth. If prophets came to correct and rebuke, then why not now, when correction and rebuke is needed the most with the direct word from God.

OR

Could it be that what we have today is in fact ...

is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness...?

Why would I want to be known as a prophet? Why, when there are friends and family that can tell you what you did wrong and do a fair job of it too, would I want to be the one rebuking your faults? Who wants that job???

Perhaps, when there is enough people who listen to God's spirit and leading, maybe then He will give a refreshing of grace.....

....or not.....

[fccool]

Quote:

Perhaps, when there is enough people who listen to God's spirit and leading, maybe then He will give a refreshing of grace.....

I don't think He's sending prophets anymore. He's coming back himself.