Through the Bible Again: Main Issues and Side Issues

[Nic Samojluk]

Originally Posted By: Nic Samojluk

The Bible states that “The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma” of barbecued meat. Was this smell really pleasing to the Lord,

What was pleasing to the Lord was the faith of the person offering the sacrifice. God doesn't really enjoy the smell of burning carcasses of creatures he's made.

Genesis 8:21

And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the intention of man's heart is evil from his youth. Neither will I ever again strike down every living creature as I have done."

Exodus 29:18, 25

and burn the whole ram on the altar. It is a burnt offering to the Lord. It is a pleasing aroma, a food offering to the Lord.

.... [25] Then you shall take them from their hands and burn them on the altar on top of the burnt offering, as a pleasing aroma before the Lord. It is a food offering to the Lord.

Yes, indeed! This illustrates the fact that sometimes we need to interpret the Bible in a manner that makes logical sense. The smell of barbecued meat was literally pleasing to people who were accustomed to a meat diet and the Lord used what is literal in order to illustrate what is spiritual.

This is reminiscent of what Jesus told Nicodemus, “You must be born again.” Nicodemus made the mistake of interpreting what the Lord had stated in a literal way.

Likewise, when Jesus told his followers that they needed to eat his flesh and drink his blood, the people read this statement in a literal manner and refused to follow the Master. Spiritual food and spiritual drink must be ingested and digested spiritually.

[Nic Samojluk]

Genesis Chapter 17

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1When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almighty; walk before me and be blameless. 2I will confirm my covenant between me and you and will greatly increase your numbers.” 3Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4“As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations.

We find in this chapter additional revelations which we sometimes overlook. In chapter 15 we learned that God promised Abraham that his servant would not inherit God’s promises to him but rather his own son. The problem was that he had no son yet, and he was getting old. The text says that Abraham believed, and the Lord declared him to be righteous. Here is the exchange between God and Abraham as recorded in chapter 15:

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4Then the word of the LORD came to him: “This man will not be your heir, but a son coming from your own body will be your heir.” 5He took him outside and said, “Look up at the heavens and count the stars—if indeed you can count them.” Then he said to him, “So shall your offspring be.” 6Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.

My question is: How strong was his faith in God’s promise? Because in the next chapter we find that Abraham yielded to his wife’s suggestion that he take Hagar as his second wife with the hope that he might secure a son this way. The result was the birth of Ishmael:

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15So Hagar bore Abram a son, and Abram gave the name Ishmael to the son she had borne. 16Abram was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael. [Chapter 16]

Was this what the Lord intended for Abraham and his posterity? Not really! What does this tell us about the strength of Abraham’s faith? If his faith had been perfect at that stage of his life, the Lord would not have challenged him in chapter 17 to be blameless, or “perfect,” as other translators have rendered said text.

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1When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, “I am God Almightya; walk before me and be blameless.

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King James Bible

And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

This seems to suggest that Abraham’s faith was not perfect when the Lord declared him “righteous” in chapter 15. If his faith had been perfect, he would not have yielded to the temptation of taking Hagar as his second wife. Notice that he was 86 years old when Ishmael was born, and he is now 99. Thirteen years have elapsed, and the one who had been declared righteous is being challenged by the Lord to grow up and be really righteous or perfect.

What does this do to Saint Paul’s theory that we are declared righteous the moment we believe? Does it mean that when we believe we become perfectly righteous. And remember that Abraham was 75 when the Lord asked him to leave his country of origin and become a wandering pilgrim in a land which was not his own. The Lord waited about a decade before declaring him righteous, and now we discover that the one who had been declared righteous is challenged by God to become really righteous, blameless, or perfect.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

And them we find that God decided to establish a new covenant with Abraham.

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10This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. 11You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you.

Why a new covenant? Was not the covenant he established with him in chapter 15 good enough? Or was it because Abraham had broken said covenant when he married Hagar?

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18On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram and said, “To your descendants I give this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the Euphrates [chapter 15]

The new covenant had a strong sexual connotation. The Lord had declared Abraham righteous in chapter 15, and in the next chapter we discover that Abraham, the man of faith, makes a sexual blunder by taking a second wife for himself. This leads the Lord to challenge him to become righteous indeed and established a new covenant with him which required sexual purity. Did Abraham finally learn this lesson well?

Perhaps not, because we discover in chapter 25 that following the death of Sarah, his wife, he remarried and had several concubines. His polygamous inclinations were not altered that much in spite of his faith.

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1Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah. 2She bore him Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah.

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5Abraham left everything he owned to Isaac. 6But while he was still living, he gave gifts to the sons of his concubines and sent them away from his son Isaac to the land of the east.

What else do we find in chapter 17 of Genesis?

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14Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Does the term “cut off” imply a death penalty or simply banishment from the tribe? The Bible is not clear on this, and Bible translators have interpreted this both ways:

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GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)

Any uncircumcised male must be excluded from his people because he has rejected my promise."

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Douay-Rheims Bible

The male, whose dash of his foreskin shall not be circumcised, that soul shall be destroyed out of his people: because he hath broken my covenant.

Did Abraham hesitate in complying with God’s conditions imposed on him as a requirement for the fulfillment of the promises made to him? The evidence shows that he promptly obeyed God’s command.

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23On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his household or bought with his money, every male in his household, and circumcised them, as God told him. 24Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised, 25and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on that same day. 27And every male in Abraham’s household, including those born in his household or bought from a foreigner, was circumcised with him.

It is interesting to notice that the responsibility connected with sexual purity seems to have been laid on the male members of God’s people.

[Nic Samojluk]

Genesis chapter 18

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1The LORD appeared to Abraham near the great trees of Mamre while he was sitting at the entrance to his tent in the heat of the day. 2Abraham looked up and saw three men standing nearby. When he saw them, he hurried from the entrance of his tent to meet them and bowed low to the ground.

The context seems to indicate that Abraham had no knowledge about the identity of his visitors, because to him it appeared that these were three travelers who were tired and hungry. This is why he offered them the following:

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4Let a little water be brought, and then you may all wash your feet and rest under this tree. 5Let me get you something to eat, so you can be refreshed and then go on your way—now that you have come to your servant.”

Had Abraham recognized the true identity of the three strangers, he would have realized that they had no need to have their feet washed nor need of any nourishment. So my question is: Did Abraham bow down to the ground as an act of worship or was this the way people greeted each other then? One Bible translation reads as follows:

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and as soon as he saw them he ran to meet them from the door of his tent, and adored down to the ground.

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6So Abraham hurried into the tent to Sarah. “Quick,” he said, “get three seahs of fine flour and knead it and bake some bread.” 7Then he ran to the herd and selected a choice, tender calf and gave it to a servant, who hurried to prepare it. 8He then brought some curds and milk and the calf that had been prepared, and set these before them. While they ate, he stood near them under a tree.

The Lord and the two angels did partake of the non-vegetarian food, even though they had just come down from heaven and were probably not really hungry.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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9“Where is your wife Sarah?” they asked him. “There, in the tent,” he said. 10Then the LORDc said, “I will surely return to you about this time next year, and Sarah your wife will have a son.” Now Sarah was listening at the entrance to the tent, which was behind him. 11Abraham and Sarah were already old and well advanced in years, and Sarah was past the age of childbearing. 12So Sarah laughed to herself as she thought, “After I am worn out and my masterd is old, will I now have this pleasure?”

Sarah did prepare the food they were eating and she seemed to be very interested in the conversation between the three visitors and her husband, yet she did not dare to join them, but was rather inside the tent listening to what was being discussed. What does this tell us about the state of women then?

This reminds me of an incident over half a century ago in Argentina. We were doing colporteur work in a remote part of the country, and we learned that there was an Adventist family in the little town who used their own home as a house church on Sabbaths. We joined the family one Sabbath and were surprised to discover that there were two tables in their home, one for the men and the other for the women. The women did listen to the discussion taking place, but they did not participate in the dialogue. Evidently, these simple folks felt that it was disrespectful for women to talk in church.

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13Then the LORD said to Abraham, “Why did Sarah laugh and say, ‘Will I really have a child, now that I am old?’ 14Is anything too hard for the LORD? I will return to you at the appointed time next year and Sarah will have a son.” 15Sarah was afraid, so she lied and said, “I did not laugh.” But he said, “Yes, you did laugh.”

Whatever Sarah was afraid of, she evidently was not afraid of lying. It seems to me that lying and deception was a common occurrence in Abraham’s time and culture. Sarah was not afraid to lie to the Lord; Abraham was not afraid to lie about the fact that Sarah was his wife; Rebecca was not afraid to engage in deception in order to secure the inheritance blessing for her son Jacob; Jacob was not afraid to lie about his true identity when trying to secure the inheritance for himself; Laban was not afraid to deceive Jacob on the day of his wedding, and so on.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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19For I have chosen him, so that he will direct his children and his household after him to keep the way of the LORD by doing what is right and just, so that the LORD will bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.”

The Lord chose Abraham for a special mission because he knew that he would “direct his children and his household after him.” Isn’t this amazing. Normally parents have a hard time getting their children to obey them when they are still alive; nevertheless, Abraham would secure his children’s obedience even after he was no longer alive. Abraham’s ability to secure the trust and obedience of those under his care seems evident by the fact that, when he was called to offer his son Isaac as a sacrifice, Isaac did not offer any resistance but was willing to die rather than disobey his father.

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20Then the LORD said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

Did the Lord need to conduct an investigation of what was taking place in those wicked cities or was God using human logic and human language in his conversation with Abraham?

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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22The men turned away and went toward Sodom, but Abraham remained standing before the LORD.e 23Then Abraham approached him and said: “Will you sweep away the righteous with the wicked? 24What if there are fifty righteous people in the city? Will you really sweep it away and not sparef the place for the sake of the fifty righteous people in it? 25Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judgeg of all the earth do right?” 26The LORD said, “If I find fifty righteous people in the city of Sodom, I will spare the whole place for their sake.” 27Then Abraham spoke up again: “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, though I am nothing but dust and ashes, 28what if the number of the righteous is five less than fifty? Will you destroy the whole city because of five people?” “If I find forty-five there,” he said, “I will not destroy it.” 29Once again he spoke to him, “What if only forty are found there?” He said, “For the sake of forty, I will not do it.” 30Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak. What if only thirty can be found there?” He answered, “I will not do it if I find thirty there.” 31Abraham said, “Now that I have been so bold as to speak to the Lord, what if only twenty can be found there?” He said, “For the sake of twenty, I will not destroy it.” 32Then he said, “May the Lord not be angry, but let me speak just once more. What if only ten can be found there?” He answered, “For the sake of ten, I will not destroy it.”

There is something I am having a hard time understanding. Abraham had no problem arguing with the Lord about his intention to destroy those two wicked cities. He was extremely concerned about the possibility of innocent human beings being destroyed together with the guilty. How come he failed to show the same courage when the Lord asked him to kill his own son, Isaac, and offer him as a sacrifice? Was not this equivalent to killing the innocent? He recoiled at the thought of innocent people being killed in Sodom and Gomorrah, but had no major problem participating in the slaughter of his own son.

How do we explain this?

[Nic Samojluk]

Genesis Chapter 19

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1The two angels arrived at Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city. When he saw them, he got up to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground.

Another translation of the same verse reads as follows:

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1And the two angels came to Sodom ii in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of the city. And seeing them, he rose up and went to meet them: and worshipped prostrate to the ground

Lot had no idea that the two strangers were angels, yet it says that he worshipped them by bending himself prostrate to the ground. He probably merely greeted them in the oriental manner.

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2“My lords,” he said, “please turn aside to your servant’s house. You can wash your feet and spend the night and then go on your way early in the morning.” “No,” they answered, “we will spend the night in the square.” 3But he insisted so strongly that they did go with him and entered his house. He prepared a meal for them, baking bread without yeast, and they ate.

When we consider the fact that the story teller describes Lot as insisting “strongly” that these two strangers spend the night at his house, we get a glimpse of the oriental hospitality prevalent in Abraham’s family.

Either Lot learned this from Abraham, or else they picked this up from their family tradition. Abraham did entertain these two apparently tired travelers without knowing their true heavenly identity. Is it possible that we might have missed great blessings for our lack of hospitability?

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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4Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom—both young and old—surrounded the house. 5They called to Lot, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.”

Other versions describe this demand for sexual abuse in a rather veiled language:

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5And they called Lot, and said to him: Where are the men that came in to thee at night? bring them out hither that we may know them

The desire to know them phrase gives the impression that all they wanted was to have a chance to meet them and have a “friendly” conversation with them. What follows reveals the true intent of this bunch of perverts.

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6Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him 7and said, “No, my friends. Don’t do this wicked thing. 8Look, I have two daughters who have never slept with a man. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do what you like with them. But don’t do anything to these men, for they have come under the protection of my roof.”

Lot’s hospitality is commendable. Nevertheless, his willingness to offer his two daughters to be sexually abused by these criminals is beyond understanding. Should he have stood the ground and said: “Over my dead body”? What does this tell us about the value of women in those times? Would Abraham reacted in a similar fashion?

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9“Get out of our way,” they replied. And they said, “This fellow came here as an alien, and now he wants to play the judge! We’ll treat you worse than them.” They kept bringing pressure on Lot and moved forward to break down the door. 10But the men inside reached out and pulled Lot back into the house and shut the door. 11Then they struck the men who were at the door of the house, young and old, with blindness so that they could not find the door.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

I am tempted to think that the accusation against Lot might have been based on the facts of the case. Notice that at the beginning of this story we find Lot sitting at the gate of the city. Who sat at the gate of the city?

Sitting at the gate of the city in those times was reserved for those in charge of conducting the business of the city dwellers. This is where the legal cases were decided. Was Lot perhaps a candidate for a political post?

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12The two men said to Lot, “Do you have anyone else here—sons-in-law, sons or daughters, or anyone else in the city who belongs to you? Get them out of here, 13because we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it.”

It is evident that at this point the identity of the two visitors must have been revealed to Lot and his family. Mere human beings do not have the power to strike a rowdy crowd with blindness and to destroy a city.

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14So Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were pledged to marry his daughters. He said, “Hurry and get out of this place, because the LORD is about to destroy the city!” But his sons-in-law thought he was joking.

Evidently courtship and marriage was conducted in those times in a slightly different manner from the way we do this today. These men had merely promised to marry Lot’s daughters, but they are referred to as Lot’s “sons-in-law.”

This story is quite revealing about the contrast between the character of Abraham and that of Lot. Both of them seem to be very hospitable towards strangers. Nevertheless, there is a striking contrast between the two men.

Lot seems to have had no problem with allowing his daughters to marry pagan worshippers; while Abraham was determined to secure a wife for his son from among those who worshipped the true God and sent his servant on a long and expensive journey in order to provide for his son’s need.

We have no idea about how much social interaction had taken place between Lot and his daughter’s suitors, but the evidence seems to suggest that they did not feel that the inhabitants of that wicked city deserved to be destroyed.

Lot must have told them about what almost happened to his daughters and how the two strangers had stricken those sex perverts with blindness; nevertheless, all this seem to them as a joke. Don’t we see a similar attitude of people today when confronted with the preaching of the coming judgment?

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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15With the coming of dawn, the angels urged Lot, saying, “Hurry! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, or you will be swept away when the city is punished.” 16When he hesitated, the men grasped his hand and the hands of his wife and of his two daughters and led them safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them.

Lot’s attachment to the material things he had accumulated must have been great, and were it not for God’s mercy, he would have perished with the wicked dwellers of these two cities.

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17As soon as they had brought them out, one of them said, “Flee for your lives! Don’t look back, and don’t stop anywhere in the plain! Flee to the mountains or you will be swept away!” 18But Lot said to them, “No, my lords, please! 19Your servant has found favor in your eyes, and you have shown great kindness to me in sparing my life. But I can’t flee to the mountains; this disaster will overtake me, and I’ll die. 20Look, here is a town near enough to run to, and it is small. Let me flee to it—it is very small, isn’t it? Then my life will be spared.” 21He said to him, “Very well, I will grant this request too; I will not overthrow the town you speak of.

God’s order was “Flee to the mountains,” but he thought that he was wiser that the Lord. He asked for the privilege of fleeing to another wicked city, and the Lord granted him this privilege. Don’t we often reveal a similar attitude?

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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24Then the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens. 25Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities—and also the vegetation in the land. 26But Lot’s wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.

Could it be that this was a volcano which erupted at the Lord’s command? The story says very little about Lot’s wife, but the evidence seems to suggest that her attachment to the life in Sodom must have been very strong.

She had witnessed the dramatic events which had taken place the night before; she had seen the wicked sex addicts stricken with blindness by the heavenly messengers; she had heard the stern warning not to look back at the doomed city; yet she dared to ignore the warning and perished with the wicked.

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27Early the next morning Abraham got up and returned to the place where he had stood before the LORD. 28He looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah, toward all the land of the plain, and he saw dense smoke rising from the land, like smoke from a furnace.

Lot’s wife looked at the doomed city and became a pillar of salt; Abraham looked at the same city and nothing happened to him. This is evidence that there are many ways of looking at the same event.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

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30Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave.

There is one detail in this story I have a hard time understanding. Lot had lost everything, and he was not very far from where Abraham, his uncle was. Abraham was rich and had plenty of everything, yet Lot went to leave in a cave with his two daughters. Life in a cave was more appealing to him than going back to live with his uncle from whom he had previously separated.

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31One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32Let’s get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father.”

Lot’s two daughters were virgins and available, yet the story suggests that there were no suitable bachelors for them. A short distance from where Lot was his uncle Abraham could have provided for Lot’s daughter’s needs. The following passage makes it clear that there were plenty of potential suitors for Lot’s daughters in Abraham’s household. Could not a couple of those 318 men married the two girls?

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14When Abram heard that his relative had been taken captive, he called out the 318 trained men born in his household and went in pursuit as far as Dan. [Chapter 14]

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33That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 34The next day the older daughter said to the younger, “Last night I lay with my father. Let’s get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father.” 35So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up. 36So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father.

The story does not provide any information about how much time elapsed between the destruction of Sodom and this incestuous encounter between Lot and his daughters. The evidence seems to indicate that Lot had plenty of time to plant a vineyard and to manufacture fermented wine.

For two nights in a row Lot got so stoned with wine that he was totally unaware of what happened each night. Did Lot get inebriated every night? Did he get addicted to alcoholic beverages while living in a cave or did he acquire this habit while living among the depraved people of Sodom?

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36So both of Lot’s daughters became pregnant by their father. 37The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.

Eventually, the descendants of Lot, the Moabites and the Ammonites became one of the bitterest enemies of the descendants of Abraham, the Israelites.

There is an additional detail in this story which sheds some light about the time when this story was written. Notice the following: “he is the father of the Moabites of today.” This indicates that this story was written many years following these events. Unless, of course, someone inserted this comments decades or centuries later.

See my next posting!

[Nic Samojluk]

We find in the Bible many similar statements suggesting that an interpolation had taken place by copyists, or else that the final edition of these writings took place at a later date. Some experts suggest that the final edition of the Pentateuch must have taken place during David time or perhaps even later by Esdras. Here are some examples:

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And they raised over him a great heap of stones unto this day. So the LORD turned from the fierceness of his anger. Wherefore the name of that place was called, The valley of Achor, unto this day. [Joshua 7:26]

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Then Gideon built an altar there unto the LORD, and called it Jehovah-shalom: unto this day it is yet in Ophrah of the Abiezrites. [Judges 6:24]

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They did not dislodge the Canaanites living in Gezer; to this day the Canaanites live among the people of Ephraim but are required to do forced labor. [Joshua 16:10]

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And the water has remained wholesome to this day, according to the word Elisha had spoken. [2 Kings 2:22]

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To this day they persist in their former practices. [2 Kings 17:34]

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David made this a statute and ordinance for Israel from that day to this. [1 Sam. 30:25]

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And the Beerothites fled to Gittaim, and were sojourners there until this day. [2 Sam. 4:3]

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Jeremiah composed laments for Josiah, and to this day all the men and women singers commemorate Josiah in the laments. These became a tradition in Israel and are written in the Laments. [2 Chron. 35:25]

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So Israel has been in rebellion against the house of David to this day. [1 Kings 12:19]

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Then David was angry because the LORD's wrath had broken out against Uzzah, and to this day that place is called Perez Uzzah. [1 Chron. 13:11]

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Over her tomb Jacob set up a pillar, and to this day that pillar marks Rachel's tomb. [Gen. 35:20]

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That is why to this day neither the priests of Dagon nor any others who

enter Dagon's temple at Ashdod step on the threshold. [1 Sam. 5:5]

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He buried him in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. [Deut. 34:6]

[teresaq]

wow!! nic, you have some interesting thoughts here!

it seems rather overwhelming, tho, for the intent of this forum. some of your questions that invite discussion have led to heated discussions which arent appropriate here, but are worthy of thought and discussion.

a suggestion, posting a chapter of the bible would be most appropriate for this forum and asking what one gets out of those texts...

for example, genesis 1, perhaps section by section...the thoughts you have go in so many directions, some of them, as stated above, would be better posted elsewhere for discussion with a link to here if you wished...

or this could be moved to the writers forum and titled "nics thoughts through the bible" if sivartm feels it is appropriate. there really isnt a forum for lengthy posts and thoughts, i dont think.

i am open to suggestions because i do like the idea, but would like all to remember that this forum, like toms, is for learning a new way of "operating". :)

[Nic Samojluk]

some of your questions that invite discussion have led to heated discussions which aren’t appropriate here, but are worthy of thought and discussion.

[teresaq]

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teresa: there really isnt a forum for lengthy posts and thoughts, i dont think.

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nic: I don’t believe this. I did participate for a time in the forum dealing about women ordination and it went for nearly 100 pages, and there was so much space and time wasted I finally decided to quit.

what i meant by "lengthy posts" were ones such as articles, and thoughts that are posted by some.

since this is mainly your bible study and thoughts, the closest to "appropriate" seemed to me to be the writers forum, but it is not what i had in mind for this forum...

did you see this suggestion of mine? what do you think of it?

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a suggestion, posting a chapter of the bible would be most appropriate for this forum and asking what one gets out of those texts...

for example, genesis 1, perhaps section by section...the thoughts you have go in so many directions, some of them, as stated above, would be better posted elsewhere for discussion with a link to here if you wished...

i do understand your concerns about too many threads, but i would be splitting them up here, or have to move some, also.

[Nic Samojluk]

the closest to "appropriate" seemed to me to be the writers forum,...