How many Covenants and how many gospels?

[Gerr]

The thread that started discussing the covenants has been derailed, so I invite those interested to continue it here. I believe that there is only ONE covenant and ONE gospel by which ALL people since the Fall are saved.

The Plan of Salvation: Everlasting Covenant/Gospel - mystery

Conceived in Eternity for All Time

-------->------->------->---------->--------->-------->------>-

' ' ' ' ' '

Proto-gospel to ' ' ' ' '

A&E - Gen 3:15 ' ' ' ' '

' ' ' ' '

Noah Covenant ' ' ' '

' ' ' '

Abrahamic Covenant ' ' '

' ' '

Sinai Covenant ' '

-Renewed in desert ' '

' '

Davidic Covenant '

New Covenant

All these covenants were extensions of the Everlasting Covenant/Gospel. All were received by faith EXCEPT the Sinai Covenant which was turned into a covenant of works. The Sinai Covenant was broken and became the Old Covenant.

There is one God, one faith, one baptism, one covenant and one gospel with one term - obedience to one and the same law, to be received by faith.

This is how I understand it. What do you think?

[Gerr]

The above post did not register as I diagrammed it! All covenants were supposed to follow each other with the dashes going down. I don't know how to make it appear as I had worked it.

[Gordon1]

This is how I understand it. What do you think?

Hi Gerry,

I believe there's one standard for all of God's children. When we become joined with the heathen, so much harder to come out from among them. For this reason the sober injunctions against intermarriage.

It's our freedom to choose God or the world.

(P.S. - Check out your diagram in the Quote mode.)

[SivartM]

So are Calvinists, Catholics, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Pentecostals, Baptists, universalists, Zoroastrians, antinomians, atheists, and Ellen White able to be saved under this one gospel? Because they would probably all differ by at least a few points from what any of us would consider to be the "one true gospel". If you don't like that list, just take out the non-Christians.

And how do these covenants, all made in the middle east, relate to people so far away from the middle east that they certainly could never have heard of them?

[pnattmbtc]

I agree with Gerry's main point, that there is only one Gospel, or Covenant, under which all are saved. To address SivartM's question, Jesus Christ is the true light that lightens everyone who comes into the world. Anyone who is saved is saved through Jesus Christ, but it may be that the one saved does not know that. They simply respond to the Holy Spirit as best they can, responding to the light (or Light).

I believe the key question God will ask in determining who should be a part in each resurrection is if they would be happy in heaven. There is a start distinction between two groups of people. One group loves God and His principles. This group would be most happy to spend eternity with God and those others who also love Him and His principles. God will take all of these to heaven, regardless of whether they are Calvinists, Catholics, Buddhists, etc.

The other group of people hate God and His principles, even though they may claim the reverse. God knows the heart. When given the chance to reveal what is in their heart, they will unite with Satan and attack the city, attempting to take by force and violence what God tried to give them freely by grace.

[SivartM]

Thanks for the answers, pnattmbtc. I hope I didn't sound like a troll... I was asking sincerely.

[teresaq]

i didnt think you did. and if pnat did-which i rather doubt- we can applaud his patience...

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Thanks for the answers, pnattmbtc. I hope I didn't sound like a troll... I was asking sincerely.

I thought it was evident you were asking sincerely.

[phkrause]

I couldn't tell if Sivart was being sincere or not, but Sivart you were definitely not trolling. :)

[Aliensanctuary]

Old Covenant/Old Contract---Swift and immediate punishment for the transgressors of the Code of Ethics of the LORD (Laws of God, 10 C's)

New Covenant/New Contract---Mercy, for a limited time, to the transgressors of the Code of Ethics of the LORD

[Gerr]

Old Covenant/Old Contract---Swift and immediate punishment for the transgressors of the Code of Ethics of the LORD (Laws of God, 10 C's)

New Covenant/New Contract---Mercy, for a limited time, to the transgressors of the Code of Ethics of the LORD

Had the Sinai Covenant (OC) not been a covenant of mercy just as the other covenants, they would have been wiped off the face of the earth the moment they broke it. But just as surely as this covenant of mercy could and was turned into a covenant of works by the Israelites, so can we turn the New Covenant into old covenant, just as the NT Judaizers did.

[skyblue888]

When Christ spoke the ten commandments on Sinai, He did not institute an old covenant! That law spoken by Christ was the New Covenant, the everlasting Covenant for proceeding out of His mouth, every command is a promise of the Spirit to fulfill the law's demand. "I Know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50.

It is often called the "old covenant" because the Isrealites, instead of receiving that law from His mouth, and therefore as Spirit and life to them, promised to obey it by their own efforts. Thus they made a covenant with death.

sky

[Gerr]

See my opening post.

[skyblue888]

See my opening post. [/quote

Just read it. I believe we are saying the same thing.

They turned God's Covenant into a covenant of works, works, works, thus a covenant with death.

sky

[Aliensanctuary]

I should have done some research before posting previously.

Quote:

Jeremiah 31:31-34

The new covenant

31. `Look, the days are coming, Yahweh declares, when I shall make a new covenant with the House of Israel (and the House of Judah),

32. but not like the covenant I made with their ancestors the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt, a covenant which they broke, even though I was their Master, Yahweh declares.

33. No, this is the covenant I shall make with the House of Israel when those days have come, Yahweh declares. Within them I shall plant my Law, writing it on their hearts. Then I shall be their God and they will be my people.

34. There will be no further need for everyone to teach neighbor or brother, saying, `Learn to know Yahweh!' No, they will all know me, from the least to the greatest, Yahweh declares, since I shall forgive their guilt and never more call their sin to mind."

The Covenant (aka Old Covenant or Contract) that the LORD made with Israel was an agreement that if they obeyed the LORD and observed his laws designed for the benefit of mankind, he would take good care of them. Human nature being what it is, Israel, and humans in general, have lost sight of the LORD and rebelled against his laws, thinking they are impossible to obey.

The New Covenant described above in Jeremiah is the same as the Old Covenant, except for the transformation of human nature that no longer harbors rebellion against God. Anyone who makes this contract with the LORD will sign it with their own blood during the Last Days.

The New Covenant will be downloaded into the minds of those who have been chosen to join the Kingdom of the Stars. No longer will they be capable of rebellion, because that part of human nature has been removed by the healing waters during the real baptism in the River of Life.

The only goal of those chosen for the Kingdom will be to serve the LORD to the best of their ability. They will be incapable of harming others or themselves because the New Covenant, with its protective laws, has been programmed into their minds, and the thought would not, and could not, occur to them to be selfish or rebellious or harm others.

[Rondo]

Gerry, didn't get your way or answer over on the other threads on New Covenant Theology or the Sabbath and the Covenants. Consider this:

Quote:

http://www.equip.org/articles/answering-jewish-objections-to-the-new-covenant-of-christ

SYNOPSIS

Jewish authorities insist that God’s Word doesn’t change and that He doesn’t make mistakes. The new covenant prophesied by the Hebrew prophets, they say, merely represents a facelift on the old. There is, however, much Old Testament evidence that the Mosaic covenant was temporary and has passed away.

Jeremiah said that the Ark, the centerpiece of the Mosaic system, would not be remembered (Jer. 3:14–16). For one thing, the Mosaic covenant was to be fully followed only in the land of Israel (Deut. 12:8–9). For another, it contained provisions, like the proscription against Israelites coming into the presence of God, that were opposed to what God ultimately had promised His people—a marriage between Himself and Israel. The Mosaic provisions, therefore, had to be temporary.

The other covenants (Noahic, Abrahamic, Davidic, and the new covenant) are called “eternal,” but this language is never associated with the Mosaic covenant. Consistent with this fact, Israel never will be able to receive her promised blessedness through the Mosaic covenant. Moses, rather, continually told Israel of their impending failure under this covenant (Deut. 32; 29:4; 30:1–6); consequently, blessedness would be the byproduct of the new covenant, which would supersede the Mosaic.

Finally, the Hebrew Scriptures do not picture the Mosaic system playing any role in the fulfillment of prophecy. There instead will be a brand new covenant, with new features including an imputed righteousness, initiated by a new High Priest, offering a new sacrifice in His own “Temple.”

With this reasoning, it is confusing to speak of an Everlasting Covenant, because everlasting, perpetual and eternal in many places were conditional "promises".

Agreed there is one Plan of Salvation, But the Old Covenaant conditions were not met, therefore they were the broken branches of Romans 11. The New Covenant is Spiritual Israel allowed for by the Abrahamic Promise, which is a more accurate way to say it.

[Just*]

When Christ spoke the ten commandments on Sinai, He did not institute an old covenant! That law spoken by Christ was the New Covenant, the everlasting Covenant for proceeding out of His mouth, every command is a promise of the Spirit to fulfill the law's demand. "I Know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50.

It is often called the "old covenant" because the Isrealites, instead of receiving that law from His mouth, and therefore as Spirit and life to them, promised to obey it by their own efforts. Thus they made a covenant with death.

sky

Amen

[Gerr]

Quote:

Jewish authorities insist that God’s Word doesn’t change and that He doesn’t make mistakes.

True. Ps 119:89 Forever, O Lord, your word is firmly fixed in the heavens. Ps 119:160 The sum of your word is truth, and every one of your righteous rules endures forever.

Isa 40:8 The grass withers, the flower fades, but the word of our God will stand forever.

Quote:

The new covenant prophesied by the Hebrew prophets, they say, merely represents a facelift on the old.

Definitely wrong! Heb 1 & 2 discusses the superiority of Christ's ministry in the New Covenant. The only thing that carries from the OC are the terms required for everyone who enters into a covenant with God, i.e. to be received by faith and obedience to His Law.

Quote:

There is, however, much Old Testament evidence that the Mosaic covenant was temporary and has passed away.

Although the Sinai covenant was an extension of the Everlasting Covenant, yes, this was to be temporary because it embodied all the services of the typological animal sacrificial system which indeed terminated at the Cross when they met the Antitype.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Jeremiah said that the Ark, the centerpiece of the Mosaic system, would not be remembered (Jer. 3:14–16).

I wonder if the author of this synopsis failed to read to the book of Revelation? It says there: "Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple." Rev 11:19 ESV.

Not only is ark of the covenant the centerpiece of the Mosaic system, it is still at the center of Christ's ministry in the heavenly sanctuary because that ark is in the very throne room of the universe.

Quote:

For another, it contained provisions, like the proscription against Israelites coming into the presence of God, that were opposed to what God ultimately had promised His people—a marriage between Himself and Israel. The Mosaic provisions, therefore, had to be temporary.

In Christ there neither Jew nor Greek, male nor female, slave nor free. All are one in Christ. And the marriage proposal is still valid, even in the new. And He will come for His bride soon.

[Gerr]

Quote:

The other covenants (Noahic, Abrahamic, Davidic, and the new covenant) are called “eternal,” but this language is never associated with the Mosaic covenant.

As I pointed out in my opening post, these different covenants are/were extensions of the same Everlasting Covenant that was conceived in eternity to same man should he sin. So yes, they were associated in a way by their common origin. Each of them were given as covenants of grace, but the Sinai covenant was not received by faith and was turned into a covenant of works, as Paul makes it clear in Rom 9-11. There is only ONE gospel by which man is saved. That was first enunciated in Eden and progressively made more clear as time went by, and reached the light of full glory in the new testament. We can also turn the new covenant into old covenant if we do not receive it by faith and try to work our own way to heaven as the Judaizers were doing.

[Gerr]

Quote:

Finally, the Hebrew Scriptures do not picture the Mosaic system playing any role in the fulfillment of prophecy. There instead will be a brand new covenant, with new features including an imputed righteousness, initiated by a new High Priest, offering a new sacrifice in His own “Temple.”

I believe that is not quite accurate. There are certain prophetic aspects of the Mosaic system that have not as yet been realized. For instance, Azazel, the prince of demons, has not yet been banished into the wilderness. I have not researched this, but the real Year of Jubilee with its sabbatical rest is yet to be realized.

Imputed righteousness is not a new concept that came with the new covenant. It was the same righteousness that was imputed in Enoch, Noach, Abraham, Moses, and on down to all believers throughout history.

[doug yowell]

Quote:

Finally, the Hebrew Scriptures do not picture the Mosaic system playing any role in the fulfillment of prophecy. There instead will be a brand new covenant, with new features including an imputed righteousness, initiated by a new High Priest, offering a new sacrifice in His own “Temple.”

I believe that is not quite accurate. There are certain prophetic aspects of the Mosaic system that have not as yet been realized. For instance, Azazel, the prince of demons, has not yet been banished into the wilderness. I have not researched this, but the real Year of Jubilee with its sabbatical rest is yet to be realized.

Imputed righteousness is not a new concept that came with the new covenant. It was the same righteousness that was imputed in Enoch, Noach, Abraham, Moses, and on down to all believers throughout history.

That's a good observation. Given that any NT truth must be dictated and validated by the OT Scriptures it only seems natural that the Mosiac system should come with it's own built-in interpretive guidance manual.Of course one needs to read it and discover the not-so-secret password in order to know how to use it.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

When Christ spoke the ten commandments on Sinai, He did not institute an old covenant! That law spoken by Christ was the New Covenant, the everlasting Covenant for proceeding out of His mouth, every command is a promise of the Spirit to fulfill the law's demand. "I Know that His commandment is life everlasting." John 12:50.

It is often called the "old covenant" because the Isrealites, instead of receiving that law from His mouth, and therefore as Spirit and life to them, promised to obey it by their own efforts. Thus they made a covenant with death.

sky

Well said! God spoke to the Isarelites the same covenant (promise) He spoke to Abraham, and it was the people's unbelief that turned it into the old covenant (another way of putting what you said).

[Rondo]

Isn't the Davidic Covenant conditional,or both conditional and unconditional, note:

Quote:

...The covenant must then be seen as eternal and unconditionally given as a promise from God, yet conditional blessings are later tied to the faithfulness of David’s descendants. As will be shown, these conditions in no way nullify the original promises. The unconditional aspects of the covenant are founded upon the covenant with Abraham, and the conditional blessings are directly related to the Law of Moses

...

http://www.basictheology.com/articles/Davidic_Covenant_OT/4/

[Gerr]

ALL of the covenants have conditional and probably unconditional aspects to them. That there will never be another universal flood was unconditional. The part that is conditional in all of them would be the terms, i.e. what is required of each individual to which he/she agrees to abide by.