Re: Unorthodox Methods

[Gerr]

As I was dressing to go to work this morning I was listening to CNN. Some big name hip-hop artist (one of the pioneers) has had a change of heart and now plans to be a minister. Now he is using hip-hop in a church setting. To what extent should/could we use unorthodox methods to attract the unchurched? The churched but not of our faith? Any guidelines?

Gerry

[Bravus]

Great question, Gerry! It seems to me that, as long as the content of the hip-hop is spiritual, the form is not an issue: it's just culture...

My own perspective owes a lot to I Corinthians 9:

19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more.

20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;

21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.

[Pockey]

I like that passage Bravus and I like what the artist intends to do. Gerry I'm not sure on guidelines, but in regards to what extent we should use unorthodox methods, I love Luke 16:1-9 (particularly as paraphrased in The Message):

Now here's a surprise: The master praised the crooked manager! And why? Because he knew how to look after himself. Streetwise people are smarter in this regard than law-abiding citizens. They are on constant alert, looking for angles, surviving by their wits. I want you to be smart in the same way--but for what is right--using every adversity to stimulate you to creative survival, to concentrate your attention on the bare essentials, so you'll live, really live, and not complacently just get by on good behavior." Luke 16:8-9 (The Message).

[Gerr]

Bravus' quotes & yours are both great, very apropos. How true that the child of this world are too often more shrewd than the children of light!

A friend of mine came to my church this last Sab because there was a steel band performing at his church. Yet he thinks that the steel band would have been ok for vesper but not the regular church service. I didn't have time to ask him why the difference.

Would you dare try rap in your church?

Gerry

[Pockey]

I'd love to hear it in church!

[Guest]

When you combine country and disco ...you get crisco..

When you combine country and rap ...you get.....

[cricket]

I thought that was what discountry was all about! Freedom to blend as we choose.

[Neil D]

Quote:

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When you combine country and rap ...you get.....

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rountry!

Which is how Scuby doo discribes our nation...

[Amelia]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

When you combine country and disco ...you get crisco..

When you combine country and rap ...you get.....

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ROFMHO <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon_salut.gif" alt="" />

[cricket]

Amelia, It's okay to laugh! (ROFMHO--where's the L??)!!

[Amelia]

L L L L L L L L L L L <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mittelgr124.gif" alt="" />

[Bravus]

A bit of old school rap - Ice T (without the cussin'), Run-DMC or Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, or Arrested Development - would work pretty well for me. Even some Eminem style (without the cussin') would get the job done. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

[Pockey]

I remember reading somewhere that Eminem once wrote Christian rap in his teens!

[Gerr]

Quote:

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When you combine country and disco ...you get crisco..

When you combine country and rap ...you get.....

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[:"blue"]Obviously we don't give heroin or marijuana to drug addicts in order to attract them. OTH, how many country music fans would you attract to a classical concert?

Gerry [/]

[Taylor]

Here is how I judge music.

If the lyrics are lost to the listener because the beat or background is so loud you can't hear it, or so distracting then how can it be worshipful? The message is the most important element else we might as well have any secular music in our churches.

The other thing is appropriateness. For instance, while I might be comfortable camping at a beach in my swimming attire and having a worship service on the beach one evening, I doubt I would want to wear that same attire to church. By the same token I do think there is a place for "majestic" music. Why is it when we play music for the president to walk in it is always fitting for the occasion? We don't play hip hop, waltz or Gershwin. We play something fitting of his title. In the same way, though I don't think we need to have Rock of Ages at 1/2 speed in our churches (though some would be blessed by it no doubt...I just can't stand things that grind and drag on to the point of putting me to sleep..lol) I don't think we need to be girating in church either. I think the music needs to fit the occasion. Does that mean there is only room for hymns in our churches, no. There is room for variety in the context of appropriateness. (Which that coudl be open for debate for the next centuries as well. Music has been a hot topic for generations.)

[Bravus]

Yep: and those judgements are themselves specific to a culture and time and place - what sounds majestic to us now is quite different from, e.g., what would have been played in Old Testament times, and probably even varies between us. Lots of heavy metal sounds very majestic to me...

[Taylor]

Perhaps but what was played for the Queen of England many many years ago is not all that what is played for the presidents in the 21st Century, in the general style. Oh sure, it has changed some but not so dramatically as to be unreconizable. I.E. it hasn't changed from "Handel's Messiah" style to "Rap". It has rather changed more from a more "morbid" stately sounding something to more "march and classical" sounding. That doesn't baptize Classical music mind you....just making my point.

[Pockey]

I agree it is the message that is most important. And while one format might be unnerving to one person, it may be a blessing to another. We're all different like that! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When CS Lewis first went to church, his first impression of the music was "Fifth-rate poems set to sixth-rate music", but then as he continued to attend, he said "I realized that the hymns (which were just sixth rate music) were, never the less being sung with devotion and passion by a man in elastic side boots in the next pew. It was then that I realized that I wasn’t fit to clean his boots.”

[cricket]

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Obviously we don't give heroin or marijuana to drug addicts in order to attract them. OTH, how many country music fans would you attract to a classical concert?

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Probably more than you've imagined. In my case, it would all depend on the snootiness of those attending the concert with me. The greater the snootiness, the less likely I am to attend.

[Nicodema]

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A bit of old school rap - Ice T (without the cussin'), Run-DMC or Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy, or Arrested Development - would work pretty well for me. Even some Eminem style (without the cussin') would get the job done.

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Just please, no Dr. Dré...