It doesn't actually *matter* who destroyed the WTC

[Bravus]

I avoided talking about anything related to the September 11 attacks on the actual day. I think those attacks are an American tragedy, and although I'm horrified by some of the ways in which Americans are 'celebrating' the day now, I don't think it's helpful or respectful for me to comment on the day.

It's a couple of days later, now, and the 3-4 threads in Town Hall around the topic have died down a little bit.

My comment is that the conspiracy theory stuff about who caused the buildings to collapse is essentially completely irrelevant. The bottom line is that whoever conducted the attacks, whether it was Osama Bin Laden or rogue elements within the American intelligence services, or the American government itself, those people got exactly what they wanted: a divided world.

If Americans had chosen to reject fear, reject hate and proudly embrace their freedoms, the last decade would have been dramatically different. But whoever perpetrated the atrocity of September 11 had as their goal fomenting a war between Islam and the West... and they have been allowed to get away with it.

[fccool]

Very good point.

Over the years I sort of stood on the sides of the unanswered questions and very strange co-incidences and behaviors on part of the governmental oversight, including the investigation. For me, these questions still stand unanswered, and the event rather mysterious. I.E. the names of the hijackers and Bin Laden were implicated within firs few hours of the attacks. The passport was found ... etc. US air force impotence to handle the situation. Much of this is now a hidden history. Perhaps, some day we will know the truth.

We could look at the war from two perspectives:

1) US was provoked into the war, and took the bait... the war which will perhaps drained US of much of its resources.

2) US had to engage in a massive scale of a war in order to prevent a looming economic collapse that would be much larger if not for Government war expenditure, as well as prevention of destabilizing of dollar by means of going away from perto-dollar, which Saddam announced (and Iran followed). If Opec did make a move to trade in Euro, dollar would be in pretty bad shape. So, the military force to "send the message" was in fact the right political move, while we certainly can question it's morality.

[Dr. Shane]

I avoided talking about anything related to the September 11 attacks on the actual day. I think those attacks are an American tragedy

[Dr. Shane]

US had to engage in a massive scale of a war in order to prevent a looming economic collapse that would be much larger if not for Government war expenditure...

The war didn't pull the US out of an economic slump. What is it about a war that would pull an economy out of an economic slump? If the answer is massive government spending, well, one doesn't need a war for massive government spending.

[fccool]

The war didn't pull the US out of an economic slump. What is it about a war that would pull an economy out of an economic slump? If the answer is massive government spending, well, one doesn't need a war for massive government spending.

[WayneV]

While I mostly agree with the body of your post. The "subject" line is an issue for me. When I first read...

It doesn't actually *matter* who destroyed the WTC

...it was difficult not to want to add; "anymore than it matters who crucified Christ".

Agape`

[Bravus]

I don't want to follow that particular red herring, but it doesn't matter a whit who crucified Christ. It was that he chose to sacrifice himself for us that makes all the difference. (And we do know it was the Romans, not the Jews, right?)

[John317]

...The bottom line is that whoever conducted the attacks, whether it was Osama Bin Laden or rogue elements within the American intelligence services, or the American government itself, those people got exactly what they wanted: a divided world.

It definitely matters to patriotic Americans just as it would matter to Australians who love their nation if they found out their government did something similar.

I don't believe it did happen the way the conspiracy theories have it, but if something like it did happen, it would be very important to find out, punish the people involved, and make sure it doesn't happen again. So far, it is all theory, like the theories about the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy, and I take it about as seriously.

[Bravus]

Yeah, fair point there. But even so, if you knew who did it, and punished them... well maybe it might get rid of some of the resentment of Muslims I guess... but it might also destroy America entirely in an armed revolution against the government.

My point was more that the attacks have happened, the towers have fallen, the people have died. There's no way to change that now. All we can do is deny the perpetrators the satisfaction of achieving their goals.

[John317]

...maybe it might get rid of some of the resentment of Muslims I guess...

I don't feel resentment towards Muslims per se. On the day after it happened, I was chatting with a Muslim woman in Ghana. She hadn't heard about it yet. When she found out they were Muslims who flew the planes, she called them criminals. She said they're not true Muslims but criminals who use religion. I feel the same way. I don't blame all Muslims for it. I think of the people making those attacks and the attacks in Iraq and Afghanistan as criminals.

[John317]

All we can do is deny the perpetrators the satisfaction of achieving their goals.

[LifeHiscost]

Originally Posted By: Bravus

All we can do is deny the perpetrators the satisfaction of achieving their goals.

Some of us forget, others probably are ignorant of the fact, the controversy is between Christ and Satan. If it hadn't been the Muslim religion that took the fall for the world trade center disaster, it would have been some other group of people.

Most of the world has been duped into believing that all men have free choice to do as they please. The Bible clearly identifies the responsible parties that give themselves over to the the prince of darkness.

"For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places."Ephesians 6:12 NASB

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?" Romans 6:16 KJV

"And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”"John 8:32 NKJV

My choice is Who I wish to emulate and maybe which body of believers I wish to spend the most time with

indiscriminately killing innocent people so I can serve my own selfish interests!

Come Lord Jesus!

[Dr. Shane]

Originally Posted By: Shane

The war didn't pull the US out of an economic slump.

That's a rather naive view.

President Obama is going around now taunting the figures that the economic growth in the past decade was among the slowest ever. He is right, of course. The point being that the "war" did nothing for the economy. It is a myth that wars are a cure for bad economies. Just look at the economic figures like unemployment, GDP and inflation following the attacks of 9/11 and the wars that started afterward. There was no great boom taking place. In fact, the economy continued down hill for a while before it moved into positive territory.

[Dr. Shane]

I don't feel resentment towards Muslims per se. On the day after it happened, I was chatting with a Muslim woman in Ghana. She hadn't heard about it yet. When she found out they were Muslims who flew the planes, she called them criminals.

They were extremists. The papacy has committed terrible crimes and it is just as wrong for people to judge all of Christianity on the acts of the papacy.

If it was a conspiracy it had to be so big and vast that it would have to have involved the CIA, FBI, NYPD, NYFD, FAA and all the major media outlets like New York Times, TV networks and Cable networks. No one could pull a conspiracy that big off.

President Wilson illegally selling arms to Brittan and shipping them to Europe on the Lusitania was probably the biggest scandal of US history and it obviously was not able to be contained. A 9/11 conspiracy would have had to been even bigger than the Lusitania and with all the media outlets we have today, such a conspiracy would be even harder to cover up today than the Lusitania was then.

[Gerr]

If Americans had chosen to reject fear, reject hate and proudly embrace their freedoms, the last decade would have been dramatically different. But whoever perpetrated the atrocity of September 11 had as their goal fomenting a war between Islam and the West... and they have been allowed to get away with it.

Forgiveness for a heinous act is difficult enough even for born again Christians, how can expect it from essentially secular people? Besides, the Bush administration was heavy with neocons who were, IMO, too heavily pro-Israeli who wanted to eliminate the threat to Israel in Sadam.

Or is that last line another conspiracy theory?

[Gordon1]

I don't feel resentment towards Muslims per se.

Hi John, We have no reason to resent Muslims.

The facts must show that Westerners (NATO et al.) have a much higher kill rate than 'Muslims'. What do you think the ratio is?

We are the threat to life on this planet. We have the biggest guns, the white phosphorus, the Depleted Uranium. We are the bullies. Perhaps you agree.

[jasd]

>>(And we do know it was the Romans, not the Jews, right?)<<

Technically, point of fact only. As it was, St Peter ought to have been advised on this technicality, as he seems to have suffered a woeful misunderstanding of facts... per his view according to St Luke:

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, [...] ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:22-23)

[LifeHiscost]

Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, [...] ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: (Acts 2:22-23)

As would seem to verify;

"Now it was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he said to the Jews, “Behold your King!”

But they cried out, “Away with Him, away with Him! Crucify Him!”

Pilate said to them, “Shall I crucify your King?”

The chief priests answered, “We have no king but Caesar!”

Then he delivered Him to them to be crucified. Then they took Jesus and led Him away."John 19:14-16 NKJV

Blessings!

[fccool]

If it was a conspiracy it had to be so big and vast that it would have to have involved the CIA, FBI, NYPD, NYFD, FAA and all the major media outlets like New York Times, TV networks and Cable networks. No one could pull a conspiracy that big off.

Shane,

What's going on right now in Russia? How about Africa? Right this moment? What's going on right now in Washington right this moment? How about your next door neighbor?

The reality is that you don't know, and what you don't know can be used against you in a way of manufacturing what you know. It's very basic human limitation. The moment the media has been fed the name of Osama who did it, and the Arab hijackers, and the jet fuel weakening the columns in such a way that 3 high rise buildings fell into their footprint...

that became the reality. And everything else became the "conspiracy theory" and stupidity.

It takes courage to explore the possibilities... the courage that many people don't have unfortunately... or perhaps fortunately, because if we all knew the truth about that day, about our government, and about our monetary system... there would be riots the same day.

[Dr. Shane]

We know the truth. There are no riots.

[Paula]

the worst blind, is the one who refuses to see.....