Here beginneth the English lesson

[Amelia]

Here beginneth the English lesson

8 March,2005

ananova.com

Churches in Portuguese-speaking Brazil are conducting services in English to try to attract more worshippers.

The trend in the capital Brasilia is proving popular with people wanting to learn the language, reports Jornal Hoje.

It started with a Protestant priest who decided to teach English to church-goers.

But the tactic has spread to other churches - both Catholic and Protestant - and even other religions.

Baptist Ana Paula Talavera said: "I bought a bilingual bible to follow the cult.

"Now I have an opportunity to deepen my spiritual life and to sharp my language skills."

Priest Robson gives tips on grammar while preaching and even corrects the pronunciation of his flock.

He said he thinks English services are a great way of helping people who cannot afford language courses.

[Nan]

This is interesting. Sammy taught himself Mandarin in his midfifties by using the Bible as a major text. (He has fluency in at least 6 or 8 languages and a working knowledge of a pile more, so he is one of the gifted linguists.) So it is a method of worth.

[LifeHiscost]

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So it is a method of worth.

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Surprising the methods our Father will use to help people become aquainted with Himself.

[:"red"] "Great and marvelous are your actions,

Lord God Almighty. Just and true are your ways," [/] Rev 15:3

[:"red"] "...for God is love." [/] 1 John 4:8

Lift Jesus up!!

[Nan]

Sammy has made a study of the way the ancient Chinese characters reflect the early chapters of Genesis - studying the works of a couple of authors. I believe this subject has been used in evangelistic-style meetings in China in quite recent times.

Not quite the same as preaching the church service in a foreign tongue to raise numbers - but I guess the gospel net has many shapes.

[LifeHiscost]

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- but I guess the gospel net has many shapes.

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That's worth an Amen.

[:"red"] "O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!" [/] Romans 11:33 KJV

Lift Jesus up!!

[Michelle]

Nan--has Sammy read the books by ??? Nelson, about Genesis and the sacrifices in relation to the old Chinese characters? I've got my third or fourth copies--I keep buying them and giving them away. One of the teachers here at the college is very into the word studies as well--I like when he preaches, because 1) he speaks Mandarin so I can understand some of what he says and 2) he always gives word studies in church. Fun!!!!

Michelle

[Nan]

Yes Michelle, it was Ethel Nelson's book that set him off. He was stationed in Macao through most of the 90s at the SDA high school there and went not knowing any Chinese at all. He went into a bookshop looking for something to help him learn the language and was given her book. The other book is by Dr Samuel Wang. And I gather there is quite a story to his life too, but I am not familiar enough to quote it.

The preacher you mention must be a bit like Sammy, who manages to incorporate something of these word studies into most of his sermons. Which is rather fun when he is being translated at the little Sydney Italian church.

He is fairly fluent in Mandarin and also speaks Cantonese and manages to get by in another dialect. I will start to sound like a boasting wife so I will cease spouting here <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Sammy comes from Indonesia and grew up when the government there banned the learning of the Chinese language in the schools. That restriction has only relatively recently been relaxed.)

[Ron Lambert]

I heard a lecture at Andrews many years ago from someone expert in the Chinese pictographs. Some of the things that stuck with me:

The word for flood is a picture with a squiggly water symbol, a boat symbol, and eight stick figure people in the boat.

The word for home is a grid which represents a field or garden, with a stick figure representing a man and a stick figure representing a woman in it.

A very similar pictograph with a garden symbol, a man, and TWO women symbols in it is supposed to be the word for unhappiness.

[Nan]

If anyone is seriously interested I will get Sammy to present a few. It is difficult to show the actual symbols if you dont have the appropriate software but that can be downloaded from the net. But some of the words are quite amazing, covet is one.

[aldona]

My husband has confirmed, by speaking to a Chinese colleague at work, that the character for "trouble" consists of two women under one roof. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

aldona

[Gail]

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My husband has confirmed, by speaking to a Chinese colleague at work, that the character for "trouble" consists of two women under one roof.

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'nuff said...

[Neil D]

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My husband has confirmed, by speaking to a Chinese colleague at work, that the character for "trouble" consists of two women under one roof.

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'nuff said...

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Oh, no, Gail....We men could say more.... But instead, I will go over here in the cornor and stand quietly.

[NormF]

Careful, Neil, in my experience, just about the time you figure it's safe in the corner ... pow! Just like the tomato dodger.

Regards,

Norm

(... are we on topic yet?)

[Nan]

And I believe the symbol for woman shows a figure taking her ease, that for wife has a horse in front !!

[Sammy Lee]

Oops! Sorry, Sweetheart! That is a modernized version. The ancient symbol (according to the Jia Gu Wen or Oracle Bones Inscription, dated circa 1500 BC) for "woman" [pronounced "Nu" as in the word "Uw" in Dutch]is a person kneeling down. This must be inspired by the story of how God punished Eve for being the cause of sin problem in Eden as recorded in Genesis 3:16, that she wil be in submission to her husband. The word "man" ("Nan", but pronounced as "None" or "Nun", not as my wife's name!) is a picture of a garden(tian) or farm with "li"(power)beneath it. In other words "man" is supposed to be carrying the farm with his power, or using modern term: "a rice/bread winner"!

Yes, the modern version of the word "woman" is now a person sitting down at ease with legs crossed.

But that is before she gets married. The symbol of "mother"(ma) is a "woman" combined with a "horse", in other words, a "mother" is a busy person as a "female horse" because she has to run busily in doing her chores taking care of the whole house!

Advise to young ladies: "Delay getting married as long as you can! and after you get married do not rush to have babies!" That was my advise to my daughter. She got married when she was 27, after enjoying her blissful carefree life to the fool.

[Sammy Lee]

Hi Aldona,

Please ask your husband's friend, which word is that, because if you open the modern Chinese dictionary for the word "trouble" which is "ma", is symbolized with a "roof" or "hiding" and under the "hiding" is "two trees". Possibly it was written in the ancient time as "two women" under the roof, but I am more prone to believe that it came from the story they heard about the two trees in the centre of the garden which caused the first trouble. And of course it was caused by "one" woman, Eve, not two. But I agree with the idea that "two" women under one roof can cause a lot of trouble even nowadays, or rather more so nowadays! Abraham would be kicking himself many times if he were to be resurrected today!

Allright! Here is another one: A "woman"(nu) combined with the word "gui" for "devil" becomes "shame" or "embarrassment", also pronounced "gui"! I think everyone can see that it is the idea of how "embarrassment" came to the Adam and Eve, when the first woman joined forces with the devil to tempt the first man! They both lost their garment of glory!

[Michelle]

Cool! Ni hau Sammy! Or perhaps I should say Lei hou. Or if it's morning, Zhou san! My Cantonese is very limited so far (well, my Mandarin isn't much better--I haven't spoken it in 11 years, so I just have bits and pieces)--I'm trying to get some basics in Cantonese, but am having troubles with the sounds that aren't in Mandarin or English! I know you know multiple languages--I'm just trying to get these!

I haven't done any in-depth study as you have--I have the books, but, as I said, I've always ended up giving them away. I do have another set, but just haven't had the time yet with the move to get started on them.

Zai Jian!

Michelle

[Sammy Lee]

Ni hao, Michelle! (For the rest: "Knee how?". Meaning: "How is your knee?" If your knees are alright, that means you have no problem, in other words, you can answer : " I am fine!")

It is 1:50 AM here, so you can say good morning.

Thanks for the greetings. You are very generous both in giving out your books and praises. I haven't done in depth studies in multiple languages. It is only a hobby and due to the fact that I have been moving about all the time, so as the saying goes "rolling stones gather no moss", just a lot of dust or mud!

But it is an undeniable fact that the Chinese people must have known and worshipped God the creator, long before the Hebrews came into existence. According to their history, there was already a kingdom in Zhongguo (The Middle Kingdom, or the Kingdom located in the centre of the earth! meaning China!) in 2205 BC, about 140 years after the flood, or 40 years after the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel. The first dynasty was the Xia (Shia) dynasty which ruled until 1766 BC. It's a pity they didn't stay faithful to the end. They later turned into idol worshippers. That's why the Hebrews were appointed as God's Chosen People instead of them.

If you folks want to know more about this, I have a summary that you can see on my website: www.chimiau.org , if you click on the "background" and "what we can offer". The rest is written in Indonesian. Zai jian!

[Amelia]

For Fun

Chinese name generator

http://www.mandarintools.com/

Mine came out as...

[:"purple"] Tang Ai mei [/]:love, be fond of, like. charming, attractive; flatter.

[Nan]

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Tang Ai mei :love, be fond of, like. charming, attractive; flatter.

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They sound like they got it right Amelia <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

[Sammy Lee]

Yes, that is a great website. FYI, you must know that the meaning of the characters in that website are given according to the understanding of modern Chinese scholars who are influenced by the major religions: Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.

Some of the definitions are not according to what the ancient Chinese believed. As Christians we must compare it with the definitions given by Ethel Nelson and Samuel Wang who traced it to the original meanings understood by the early Chinese ancestors who lived during the first few centuries after the confusion of languages at the Tower of Babel.

BTW, a knowledge of Chinese/Japanese Kanji (writings) will postpone Alzheimers according to medical research, for the simple reason that our neuron transmitters in our brain are more active most of the time, because we see pictures in those words instead of alphabets which we never even noticed as we speak other languages.

May your interest in studying this amazing language confirm your faith in God's Word as it has done to me.

[Sammy Lee]

Here are a few words mentioned above, which I managed to paste so that you can better understand what have been discussed above. Of the 214 original radicals or basic components of the Chinese language, more than a half of them tell the exact story of creation of the first couple in Eden, temptation by the devil, the fall, the promise of righteousness/salvation by the lamb of God, the driving away from Eden, the first murder, the flood, the building of the tower of Babel, the confusion of languages at the first great migration of the human race, just as it is described in Genesis 1 to 11.

"woman" [pronounced "Nu" as in the word "Uw" in Dutch]is a person kneeling down, but the modern form is 女 , which is a picture sitting on a chair with legs crossing each other, or some imagine it a woman "cat-walking".

A mother (ma) is person who has to work like a horse: 媽 While a man is supposed to be the "rice/bread winner", working hard using his strength in the farm/field: 男

Two trees under "hiding" means "trouble" 麻. Wasn't that the cause of the first trouble in Eden?

Further: 禁 (jin), two trees with "God" underneath="to prohibit".

First prohibition was made by God regarding "two trees" in the centre of Eden.

婪 (lan)= "to covet" = a woman under "two trees", looking up to one of them with "desire/covetousness".

罰 (fa) ="punishment" = "4" + word + knife : 4 words of temptation by the devil: 1. you shall not die 2. your eyes will be open 3. you shall be like God 4. you will be full of knowledge of good and evil, caused the first death punishment or penalty!

魔鬼 ( mo gui) = " tempting devil" = hiding + two trees + devil. the character "devil" itself is: "breath" + "garden/field/farm" + "son/child" + "secret/private".

The graphic description of how the devil "disguised himself as a son of God", hiding under the two trees in Eden, and whispering "secret", privately to the woman, who then became "covetous".

All this could not be coincidental!

[aka]

Hey, you gals and guy have really made my day with this topic thread.

I love it!

Please, don't stop.... do go on.... I so want to learn more !!!!

[Sammy Lee]

Hi, Tumeric and the rest of you,

I see quite a number of you who are really interested in this subject. So let me start from the beginning, and perhaps somebody might be quite offended because this topic was suppose to begin something about English lesson, but here we are quite deep into the Chinese vernacular.

But I can assure you that you lose nothing by delving into this subject.

Besides helping the development of your neuron transmitters and increasing your memory power, the Chinese language shows very logical and quite Christian philosophy in a lot of points.

For instance the word "I/me" (the Chinese use the same word for subjective, objective and possessive case: "wo"(我), pronounced as the word "war" or "wore" but with the silent "r" sound! The word according to the oldest script discovered so far, was originally a simple picture of a "hand"(shou) 手戈holding a "spear"(ge) 戈 or weapon of war in ancient time, which looks like a giant fork, sometimes decorated with red or yellow ribbons. In other words, "I am a powerful person because I am holding a dreadful weapon of war in my hand."

But the word "you"(ni)你 is a simple drawing of a "man/person" and a "balancing scale", in other words: "You are a man, equal or in balance with me!" And "he/she"他(ta=third person singular) is "also" a "person"(人) + "also"(ye)(也), again it means: "he or she is "also" a "person" like you and I" Thus we are all equally made human beings!

The ancestors of the Chinese people, just like the Hebrews, Christians and Moslems believe that "man" (人)is made or "created" (zao=造) [the word "zao=create, consists of the components: "breath" ' + "dust/earth" 土 + "mouth" 口 +"walking"走] from dust/earth, by the Creator God(Shangdi 上帝=the King above/Supreme Ruler Up in Heaven) by blowing the "breath of life" into his nostril, using His "mouth" ,of course, and right away Adam could walk like an adult, while the rest of us had to learn to crawl and stand first before we could "walk". Isn't that fascinating?

[Amelia]

Awesome! I dont know that I could ever speak chinese but learning the meaning behind the written characters is very fascinating. Shi shi ni