Keeping the Sabbath holy?

[abelisle]

Is it the things we do or don't do or is it the mindset?

Who determines this and why are so many Adventists "terrorized" by the chance they might not be keeping it holy?

Sabbath was made for man so at what point did we get it all wrong?

I mention this because of some other topics here and because all of the "new" Adventists I meet have this as their most foremost and pressing question.

Alex

[Tom Wetmore]

Perhaps we need to rethink both Sabbath and holy. I think tradition has terribly distorted both.

[abelisle]

Matter of fact, the only thing that is holy is God. So how do we keep something holy or is this simply an idiomatic expression?

Abraham Joshua Heschel said that the Sabbath is holiness in time. That creates another issue which is how and why can time be holy? Simply as a commemoration or some other preternatural relationship that time has with holiness?

Like the Greek words "chronos" and "kairos" - time as in a clock or chronograph and time as in the opportune time or prophetic time?

So, when we guard the edges of the sabbath, are we protecting the holiness of time as embodied in the sabbath?

Just what makes anything holy? If it's God's presence then can't all time be holy, not just the sabbath?

Alex (questions, questions, questions

[Woody]

One value of having Sabbath is that it 'forces' us to be IN Him during those 24 hours. This is a good thing. These modern times are SO busy. We can easily neglect God. The Sabbath is about remembering.

I believe that it is good for us to have personal 'rules' to make sure we stay on the right path. At times in my life ... when I was hanging on by my finger nails ... keeping the Sabbath was the one thing that kept me in the faith. I almost legalisticly kept Sabbath. This saved my spiritual life.

I don't trust myself. So, I guard the edges of the Sabbath. It can be a slippery slope if you don't. It doesn't matter what you do .... but do all with the motive of being closer and thinking of God on this day. What helps one relationship might not help another. So, I don't frown on what other people are doing. I just make sure what I am doing ... helps me focus on God on that day.

[Gail]

It's neat that the Bible gives the principle but not a lot more than that, leaving you to interpret the principle yourself.

Now THERE'S a novel idea- developing your own interpretation of the principle! That hauls us out of laziness, doesn't it? :)

[Woody]

Doing it by rote is better than not doing it at all ... but it certainly is not the ideal.

[phkrause]

I would definitely agree with your post CoAspen. Having observed how Jews keep the Sabbath, I do wonder why we don't have those same things in the Adventist Church. Seems like most of the time we prefer following other Christian Churches more. Not saying we have to keep some of the traditions that the Israelites followed. Contary to a certain opinion that the Jews where legalisted, I believe most Jews love God and the Sabbath much more than we do.

[Woody]

I was going to quote you CoA but then realized that was against the rules here so I will just state that I am commenting on your 'rote' statement:

Your theory is correct but not for all. I am living proof. The rote keeping of the Sabbath kept me in the church. And it lead to a more Christ centered relationship besides keeping me in the church.

This topic like many is not a one fits all topic. I think there more ways to view it.

[phkrause]

I wasn't brought up Jewish, my father after getting out of concentration camp wanted nothing to do with being Jewish. So he let my Mom bring us up in what ever religion she wanted. So she searched around and a german bible worker from the brooklyn SDA church gave her bible studies. and than after a while when my father was interested in participating she asked if there was a Jewish SDA church. But I did do a lot of observing my relatives on my fathers side during the different holidays (for lack of a better word) it was very interesting. I do understand that most of them, at least from the OT, ended with Christ's crucifiction. But certain Jewish traditions (also for lack of a better word) are really not bad to emulate. Because for the Jew the Sabbath was alive. They inter acted with God during the whole week, but the Sabbath was really special. Not so sure about today. I do know that the really pious Jews are still like that. Especially friday evening when they prepare for the Sabbath.

[Overaged]

The Bible condemns one kind of tradition, and uplifts/recommends another. Some tradition surrounding Sabbath, with Adventists is good. Nothing wrong with it.

[Overaged]

Why would God tell us to keep the Sabbath holy; if it is something we cannot do? Where is the rule that says only God is holy? Why can't other things be holy; IF HE SAYS IT IS?

[Overaged]

That doesn't make sense to me. it never has. Why on earth can't we be forced to be in Christ 24/7? Being In Christ should not just happen on Sabbath. If that's the case; then something is really wrong.

[Doug]

Good topic. I find myself struggling with what is acceptable and what isn't. I have been attending a different SDA church from the one I usually go to, they are really liberal in what they do and don't do on the Sabbath.

Example is on Sabbath mornings some go hiking, some go to the beach and surf, some go and volunteer to assemble care packages for overseas troops. I haven't done any activities yet because it just feels weird.

and then I have a personal struggle with my job. I am a car guy, and I like to watch drag racing and drifting but 99% of the time it's on the sabbath and I try to tell my coworkers about it and as an adventist what we do and don't do but it ends up sounding like I am either making stuff up or weird. Plus it sounds like i have to go consult a list of rules and things.

[Gail]

Jesus said that it was lawful to do well on the Sabbath. That is why He went ahead and healed.

Maybe there is a reason God gave us the principle and not any finer, point-by-point rules to follow. I think He just wanted us to think about what we should do for ourselves.

[phkrause]

Good thoughts Gail, I agree.

And Doug, I've felt the same on occasion. Finally decided to stop thinking of excuses, just either say no sorry have better things to do, or just go and do it.

[Overaged]

It's true Doug, this is a struggle for many. I don't think it means there is anything wrong with you and what you are doing or not doing on Sabbath. It may just mean that others who have told you about the Sabbath may not be well-grounded in the truths behind it. And that's OK in a Church where we are all supposed to grow in faith together. Some get too judgmental about it, but God wants us to try to love them too.

[phkrause]

Good post Overaged, I agree.

[Woody]

Am I missing something?

Or is something missing?

I can't find a post from Sivart.

[SivartM]

Ooh, was I supposed to post? Sorry!

[Woody]

Ha Ha!! Pk had liked your post even though you hadn't posted. And I have to keep him on the straight. :)

[phkrause]

Good catch Woody, thanks for the save. LOL

[Woody]

Yes pk. It's a tough job ... but someone has to keep you in line. :)

[Overaged]

OK people. We are streaming into page two of this topic now. What have we learned? What have we decided? What should be our witness to the world about "keeping the Sabbath holy?"

Perhaps, we could answer a couple of "trick" questions while we are at it to help "explain?"

What do we, as a church say, about a man who has "kept the Sabbath" just like everyone else in the church for many years. Going to church. Not doing all those wrong things. Doing ONLY those things that are "good."

Then, one year, the economy takes a dive. The poor man's bank account runs dry. And he gets a chance to work only one day that week. There is no food in the cupboards. (CHURCH MEMBERS WHO WORKED IN HEALTH-CARE PROFESSIONS TOLD HIM THIS WAS BECAUSE HE DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH FAITH). But, this one morning, there were three slices of bread and some fruit on the counter when he went to work that Sabbath. It was the only food in the house. He did some hard, manual labor that day, Too hard for his arthritic limbs; yet, when he left the house crying because he had to work that sabbath to feed his family, the three pieces of bread remained on the counter so his kids and wife could have a little snack for their breakfast to tide them over till he got home.

Ten hours later that night, the supper he had didn't taste good to him. After the family was full and happy once more, he found a place to cry again where no one could see him. The reason he was crying was because of how he knew church members in the health care professions would condemn him for what he did (and they did do this), even though they, themselves would work any Sabbath that they pleased.

This man has not been back to church for years because of what those church members said and did to him over this. This is a true story, with some minor details changed to protect privacy.

So; the "trick" question is this: WHO OF THESE TWO CASES KEPT THE SABBATH HOLY? Was it the man, or the health-care Church members who sat around every sabbath over-stuffing themselves with special religious foods, and criticizing the latest "apostate" ministry or individual in the church?