Do Leaders Lead After They Sin?

[Woody]

Or do leaders not sin?

[phkrause]

Or do leaders not sin?

Leaders sin all the time and lead after sinning too I bet. :)

[Woody]

How do they lead?

And what do they lead about?

[phkrause]

How do they lead?

And what do they lead about?

When you say leaders, I guessed you meant Doug Batchelor, Neil Wilson, Shawn Boonstra, etc? How they lead? Not sure what you mean? Your pastor at your church, how does she lead? And does she not sin? We all sin. As far as shat do they lead about, you need to ask them!

[Woody]

Okay. I will stop beating around the bush.

What I am saying is that leaders should lead by example. When anyone sins ... what should they do? That is what leaders need to lead in. They should not try to hide that they sin ... but they should be leading in what to do when one sins.

What do you think?

[phkrause]

Okay. I will stop beating around the bush.

What I am saying is that leaders should lead by example. When anyone sins ... what should they do? That is what leaders need to lead in. They should not try to hide that they sin ... but they should be leading in what to do when one sins.

What do you think?

I agree with that. I believe that if a leader does things contrary to what they preach, speak, etc. They should resign from that position before they are caught. Most when they are caught than claim I'm sorry, but are they? Or are they only sorry that they got caught? But that is really for God to judge we can only speculate I guess.

[Neil D]

Okay. I will stop beating around the bush.

What I am saying is that leaders should lead by example. When anyone sins ... what should they do? That is what leaders need to lead in. They should not try to hide that they sin ... but they should be leading in what to do when one sins.

What do you think?

Different point of view......

Is this about God and His will or is it about man? I guess the real question in my mind is-

How does this further God's cause?

[Woody]

Pk ... I disagree with your agreeing with me.

I don't believe in what you said. If we do that ... we end up with no leaders because they all sin. No ... resigning is not right. They need to openingly confess, apologize, make right their wrongs, and move forward in a positive way.

I want a leader who frequently admits "I was wrong" or "I made a mistake" or "I failed" or "I sinned". It should be no big deal. If more members did this ... the work would move forward with more strength. And there would be less friction in our personal relationships at church and church ministries.

Have you tried the liberating experience of putting your arm around a fellow believer and saying ... "I was wrong"?

[Gerr]

Okay. I will stop beating around the bush.

What I am saying is that leaders should lead by example. When anyone sins ... what should they do? That is what leaders need to lead in. They should not try to hide that they sin ... but they should be leading in what to do when one sins.

What do you think?

Were you not the one who said that you sin all the time and will continue to willfully sin until Jesus changes you at the second coming? If you can't stop doing that, why should you expect our leaders to be any different?

[Woody]

Like I stated ... our leaders are no different than us. We ALL sin and will continue to sin till Jesus comes. But our leaders need to be leaders in sinning. By that I mean they should lead in what one should do after sinning. Admit it. Openly Confess. Make right. Move on and get about the work God has before them. (Leading us)

[GreatLakesGramma]

I agree, Woody. A pastor apologized to me once, and I respect him more than most pastors I've known.

[Gerr]

But how effective is the ministry of a fornicating, swindling, drug-dealing, gossiping pastor/leader?

[Woody]

But how effective is the ministry of a fornicating, swindling, drug-dealing, gossiping pastor/leader?

The answer is a very simple one.

VERY effective. FAR more effective than one who pretends to be holy and without sin.

We ALL sin. We need leaders who will LEAD and show us what to do when we sin. A pastor who has done the things you list and who will admit and demonstrate and share what to do about it .... is a FAR more effective leader.

[Woody]

I agree, Woody. A pastor apologized to me once, and I respect him more than most pastors I've known.

Finally ... Some one who understands.

[GoLions]

If it a sin of public nature, then the asking for forgiveness should be public, If it is on a more one to one problem, then that is where it should be taken care of. If it is more between you and God, then keep it there.

But, we should confess our "faults" to our fellow people. Not specifics, because that will not help anyone, and could even cause someone else to think that if an Pastor has this problem then my problem is not so bad. When any problem is really 'that bad' and needs to be overcome.

[GreatLakesGramma]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

But how effective is the ministry of a fornicating, swindling, drug-dealing, gossiping pastor/leader?

The answer is a very simple one.

VERY effective. FAR more effective than one who pretends to be holy and without sin.

We ALL sin. We need leaders who will LEAD and show us what to do when we sin. A pastor who has done the things you list and who will admit and demonstrate and share what to do about it .... is a FAR more effective leader.

That depends on whether he has repented of those sins, or is continuing in them. If he's still doing those things, he doesn't belong in the ministry.

[Gerr]

Originally Posted By: Gerry Cabalo

But how effective is the ministry of a fornicating, swindling, drug-dealing, gossiping pastor/leader?

The answer is a very simple one.

VERY effective. FAR more effective than one who pretends to be holy and without sin.

We ALL sin. We need leaders who will LEAD and show us what to do when we sin. A pastor who has done the things you list and who will admit and demonstrate and share what to do about it .... is a FAR more effective leader.

Well, where is Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, and who was that pastor in Denver who was involved with a man?

Compare them with Billy Graham, who, as far as I know, has never had a public scandal to stain his life.

[doug yowell]

Well, where is Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, and who was that pastor in Denver who was involved with a man?

Compare them with Billy Graham, who, as far as I know, has never had a public scandal to stain his life.

You might add to the list:E.J.Waggoner,Pastor Dan,Pastor Tammy,and a host of other leaders in our own church. You might also consider the effectiveness of David's ministry ("you have given occasion for the enemies of God to blaspheme")after his Uriah the Hittite debacle,or Hezekiah after the visitors from Babylon,or Moses and Aaron after striking the rock,or...Not quite the same even for the good guys!

[GreatLakesGramma]

Who are Pastor Dan and Pastor Tammy?

[doug yowell]

Who are Pastor Dan and Pastor Tammy?

Perhaps I should let Gerry answer that one.

[Gerr]

The Dan I know was with the story hour as Uncle Dan. I heard him during our last Carolina Camp meeting. Still going strong.

If Doug lives in SoCal, he should know more about Pastor Tammy . My understanding is that she ran off with one her parishioners. I hope I'm not guilty of gossiping. If she is the one, her ministry, as far as I know, is over. ( At least in the SDA church.)

[doug yowell]

The Dan I know was with the story hour as Uncle Dan. I heard him during our last Carolina Camp meeting. Still going strong.

If Doug lives in SoCal, he should know more about Pastor Tammy . My understanding is that she ran off with one her parishioners. I hope I'm not guilty of gossiping. If she is the one, her ministry, as far as I know, is over. ( At least in the SDA church.)

OK. Pastor Dan Simpson. Architect and engine of the Celebration Movement in Adventism.Pastor Tammy McGrew.Among the first of the first women head pastors in SECalifornia Conference and imitator of the Celebration agenda.They ran off with each other effectively ending both of their"ministries".I could name several pastors from the S.California area who's influence has evaporated since their various moral violations have been discovered.Those whose moral lapses were previous to their conversions have been shown to be among the most effective leaders for Christ.

[John317]

Pastor Dan Simpson. Architect and engine of the Celebration Movement in Adventism.Pastor Tammy McGrew.Among the first of the first women head pastors in SECalifornia Conference and imitator of the Celebration agenda.They ran off with each other effectively ending both of their"ministries".I could name several pastors from the S.California area who's influence has evaporated since their various moral violations have been discovered.Those whose moral lapses were previous to their conversions have been shown to be among the most effective leaders for Christ.

I'm really sad to hear this. When did this happen? I used to go sometimes to the Celebration church in Colton years ago-- not on a regular basis but to visit from time to time.

Satan is after all of us and except for God's grace, we would all go the way these two evidently have gone. We should pray they'll genuinely repent and come back to Christ. Sounds like they gradually wandered away from Him. It can happen to anyone if we're not constantly listening to Him and obeying the truth.

[Margo Hope]

I attended Celebration Center for at least 15 years, and knew Dan Simpson very well. In fact he married my husband and me in 1996 in the infamous church. I was heartbroken over his decisions pertaining to his wife Tammy whom he married after admitting they had a secret affair. I also know and love his former wife, Darlene, and miss the days when CC was a fully functioning life and soul saving ministry. I still give that church credit for saving my life which, when I walked through the doors in 1990, was a complete drug addicted mess. I will be forever grateful for Dan's ministry in my life, and pray for his and my own salvation.

[LifeHiscost]

Quote:

Leaders sin all the time and lead after sinning too I bet.

I would like to suggest there is a difference between falling

short and admitting it with repentance, as opposed to practicing sin or sinful ways. While the Scripture plainly reveals we can do nothing without Jesus, it also points out that we can do all things with Him.

God blesses!