"Why aren't they talking about ______"? (an education rant)

[abelisle]

After reading the morning paper, I'm once again upset after reading the articles and editorials about how to fix our educational system. It seems that the favorite flavor of the day is teacher performance evaluation based on testing results.

As a retired teacher (35 years) this is what bothers me: 1)we still don't have a national testing standard somewhat like the Cambridge exams in the British system 2)teaching to the test only encourages the formation of non-thinkers, cheaters, and the use of rote memory to get by 3)no one is talking about CLASSROOM DISCIPLINE! and finally 4)parental, family and societal support for the importance of education.

In many parts of this country the exploits of the school's sports teams take precedence over their academic achievements. Smart students are made fun of. There is a strong undercurrent of anti-intellectualism (which I also detect in Adventist circles, I fear)in the US.

But I'll save the best for last. CLASSROOM DISCIPLINE IS THE KEY TO SUCCESS.Most urban school systems will acknowledge that that this is the key teacher concern issue. I believe and know from personal experience that a teacher can teach any level of student if there weren't any discipline issues.

I've taught in Harlem and the S.Bronx - some of the toughest schools in the nation and have had success when teaching honors classes (well-disciplined, motivated and for the most part from religious families)and have had great success. One of my Adventist students in my A.P. English class got a full scholarship to Columbia University and another to Cornell.

Even with classes of less intelligent and motivated students,once I got a handle on the discipline issues, I was able to get good results on the state exams.

This is one of the reasons why we so many smaller charter schools coming into existence. Smaller class sizes with motivated, disciplined students is nearly a guarantee for success.

What's your opinion about classroom discipline? (You better respond or I'll send you to the Dean's office and guess who's the Dean - me!

Alex

[Liz]

When I was growing up, they still gave swats. In the younger grades it was with that paddle/ball board with the ball removed, then starting in Junior High it was with an actual board, about two feet long and at least two inches thick. I don't remember there being too many problems in the classroom. If students had a problem with each other and they were going to fight they took it to the park after school.

We also grew up knowing that if we got into trouble at school, we were also getting into trouble at home too. Mom and Dad always sided with the teacher/principal.

I don't know what classrooms are like now. I started homeschooling when I found out that my then Kindergartner would have to walk through metal detectors to get to class, and we were in the "good" school district.

[Woody]

Yes. A good swat on the b hind always did me good. The paddle was up in front for all to see. But, the teacher had to react quickly when it came to me. And thus a good swat.

[Tom Wetmore]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/

[Bravus]

Let's not (if it's OK with everyone) head off down the 'it was better back in the old days when we could control kids with violence' track... I'm reasonably sure that's not where Alex was headed.

I hope people will read closely and carefully what I have to say below, because it would be easy to read it as a touchy-feely, laissez-faire description of schooling, and it's not that at all. It's a principled, informed and structured approach, developed through 20 years of classroom teaching and a *whole* lot of reading and thinking as well.

I'd change your quote slightly, Alex, and say relationships are the key to learning. Classroom discipline is there to promote and protect the learning relationships between students and teacher and between students and students.

'Relationship' here is not a warm and fuzzy term for feeling good about ourselves and each other. In the teacher-student relationship there is a wholly necessary differentiation of roles, and there are certain privileges and duties that fall on each person as part of that teacher-student relationship.

I could talk more about that, but lets keep this a bite-size start.

The other piece of the puzzle is that classroom discipline is impossible without self-discipline on the part of all concerned, and is also aimed at forming and developing self-discipline on the part of all involved. Even if the consequences for misbehaviour *include* a caning, for example, it requires self-discipline on the part of the student to refrain from the kinds of behaviours that will lead to a caning. Without self-discipline, a controlled, productive classroom facilitating learning is impossible. On that much we're in agreement.

Part of the problem is definitely that our society as a whole has taken the emphasis off self-control: and, ironically, all the calls for 'harder' and 'firmer' authoritarian controls on the part of teachers just *accelerate* that tendency. Without physically restraining the students, the teacher is reliant on the students' self-control to control the classroom, so *building* that is simply a more productive approach than *breaking* it.

There's more, but that might have to be enough to be going on with.

[Bravus]

Oh, two more quick ones:

1. testing *damages* schooling, it doesn't fix it: http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=2044 http://www.bravus.com/blog/?p=2053

2. charter schools work by concentrating together the kids of people who care about education in one place and appropriately resourcing learning. it's almost irrelevant what happens in those classrooms: it's in picking the student body that the gains occur. given that, they're not a way forward to solving the hard problems: we have to do that in the public schools.

[abelisle]

Thanks Bravus for your clarification.

Classroom management and discipline is only effective if the teacher-student relationship is caring yet firm, meaningful and fair, morally just and equal, and serves to encourage moral growth along with self-discipline in the student.

The problem I've had was that many of my students chose poor peer relationships and/or they lacked family/parental support.

I used to joke with my colleagues that if we could live with our students (sort of a learning commune)and control their eating habits, friendships and study habits, we could solve all of our problems.

And finally, let it be known that most students respect and love their most disciplined teachers (note I didn't say their most strict teachers). Love enshrouded within discipline goes a long way!- sort of like Jesus' justice and mercy wrapped into one = love.

As a male teacher, many times I felt more like a surrogate father - the ones that many of them didn't have.

Alex

[Liz]

Let's not (if it's OK with everyone) head off down the 'it was better back in the old days when we could control kids with violence' track... I'm reasonably sure that's not where Alex was headed.

I never said it was better, I just said that was what "I" was familiar with. Obviously I wanted something different for my own kids. I apologize if my post lead you to believe, that I thought that way was a good one. In fact, thinking back as an adult to those times some of my classmates probably had ADHD or numerous other problems--I'm thinking school must have been pure torture for them.