Misuse of the SOP...

[Twilight]

I just wanted to raise some objections as to how some would like to arrive at "truth"...

If one has truth to present, they should be able to show that from the bible, this was always the Adventist position.

So why is it that sometimes we fall into the trap of using the SOP to establish doctrinal truth?

And then try to force the bible to fit it?

Should we be doing this?

[Gerr]

No!!!

[Twilight]

No!!!

That was quite emphatic Gerry. :-)

The reason I raise this, is that often people will use this line of logic:

Me: Please show me your belief from the bible.

Them: The SOP is inspired.

Me: I understand that, but you still need to show it from the bible.

Them: But the SOP agrees with me and you are wrong.

Me: If the SOP and yourself are in agreement, you will also be in agreement with the bible, please show it from the bible.

Them: You are trying to diminish the influence of the SOP because it doesn't agree with you, it agrees with me.

Me: In that case you should have no problem showing what you believe from the bible.

Them: You are in apostasy as you do not accept the SOP, which agrees with me.

Me: *sigh*

:-)

[SivartM]

I don't usually listen to sops. :\

I also don't like it when people show me a quote (whether from Ellen or the Bible) and expect me to believe that therefore everything they say is absolute truth forever.

[Aliensanctuary]

Quote:

He who spews the most quotes, wins.

EGW made some bold, unprovable, claims. In the End, if her Last Days scenario turns out to be wrong, her staunchest defenders and quote-masters will likely turn all colors of the rainbow when they realize they have been misled.

[Twilight]

Quote:

He who spews the most quotes, wins.

EGW made some bold, unprovable, claims. In the End, if her Last Days scenario turns out to be wrong, her staunchest defenders and quote-masters will likely turn all colors of the rainbow when they realize they have been misled.

That is not the subject at hand AS. :-)

You will find Ellen White bashing on another floor...

[Guest]

Originally Posted By: Aliensanctuary

EGW made some bold, unprovable, claims. In the End, if her Last Days scenario turns out to be wrong, her staunchest defenders and quote-masters will likely turn all colors of the rainbow when they realize they have been misled.

That is not the subject at hand AS. :-)

You will find Ellen White bashing on another floor...

AMEN!!!

[Aliensanctuary]

Pardon my bash.

I must be misunderstanding what misuse of SOP is.

I apologize for posting here.

[jasd]

>>I must be misunderstanding what misuse of SOP is.<<

SOP is a misuse - except for arcanery.

[Dr. Shane]

So why is it that sometimes we fall into the trap of using the SOP to establish doctrinal truth?

Can I ask which doctrinal truth we are talking about?

Many people that quote the SOP to support a doctrine but cannot find support in the Bible, simply don't know their Bibles good enough.

[John317]

So why is it that sometimes we fall into the trap of using the SOP to establish doctrinal truth?

Quote:

Can I ask which doctrinal truth we are talking about?

Many people that quote the SOP to support a doctrine but cannot find support in the Bible, simply don't know their Bibles good enough.

And it also doesn't mean that we shouldn't use her for authority in other things. She says many things that are not in the Bible, but that's not important. She offers many details, for instance, about the Fall that we wouldn't know if it wasn't for Ellen White.

No prophet only says what a previous prophet said. If they did, they would all be repeating what Moses said. The test is whether someone teaches something that is a clear contradiction of a previous prophet of God. I don't believe Ellen White does this, although that's not to say that she never said anything that can't be understood to contradict the Bible. People do that all the time on the anti-White web-sites.

It's also important to remember that in the early history of the church, Ellen White's was used of God to help the pioneers find doctrinal truth. When they studied and couldn't decide something, she would be given a vision which indicated they should keep studying the Bible on the topic or that they had the correct understanding of a doctrine. That is often forgotten.

[Dr. Shane]

I assume we are talking about one of our 28 fundamental beliefs. Of course there is a lot of extra details Ellen White told us that are not in the Bible. However all of our fundamental doctrines are Biblically based.

[John317]

>>I must be misunderstanding what misuse of SOP is.<<

SOP is a misuse - except for arcanery.

Ellen White herself used "the Spirit of prophecy" to refer to her writings that the Holy Spirit inspired.

The context of Rev. 12: 17; 14: 12; and 19: 10 show that one of the identifying marks of God's people at the end of time will be that God will manifest the gift of prophecy among them.

Other marks is that they will obey all of God's commandments; hold the faith of Jesus; come on the stage of history some time after the end of the 1,260 years (which period ended in 1798), and that they will proclaim the Three Angels Messages throughout the world. Ellen White's ministry definitely fulfills that prophecy, but SDAs don't teach that this is the only meaning of "the Spriit of prophecy."

God could inspire more prophets in the future, and it also relates to a further fulfillment of the prophecy in Joel when God's Spirit will fall on many people, not merely one woman. Before Christ returns, the Holy Spirit will fall on thousands of people who will preach the Third Angeles Messages with great power all over the world.

[Gordon1]

It's also important to remember that in the early history of the church, Ellen White's was used of God to help the pioneers find doctrinal truth. When they studied and couldn't decide something, she would be given a vision which indicated they should keep studying the Bible on the topic or that they had the correct understanding of a doctrine. That is often forgotten.

Yes John. In 1904 she wrote that the doctrine had been pure for fifty years.

"The fundamental principles that have sustained the work for the last fifty years.."

"Upon this foundation we have been building for the past fifty years."

"For the past fifty years every phase of heresy has been brought to bear upon us.."

1 Selected Messages 204-208.

[John317]

Very interesting quotes, Gordon1. It shows that Satan is working hard to bring heresies into the church.

I don't believe the SDA church has any official beliefs that are heresy, but for sure there are many individuals in the church who teach false doctrines. There are some people in the church who even teach against the Sabbath,and others who openly teach agains the SOP and various books of the Bible. And of course there are also those who teach against the Investigative Judgment, as well as against the whole concept of the Remnant church. Some teach that no one keeps the commandments or can keep them even with the Holy Spirit.

As Ellen White said, there will be every wind of doctrine blowing through the church, and I think we're seeing that already, but it will no doubt get a lot more windy in the church. We won't be able to depend on others to know the truth but will have to study and know these truths for ourselves.

[Twilight]

Pardon my bash.

I must be misunderstanding what misuse of SOP is.

I apologize for posting here.

No problem.

We are examining how the SOP can be misused to shore up personal theories that cannot be found in the Bible.

With the SOP being so vast, one can isolate many a sentance and make it appear to support ones position.

I always get wary when people start saying:

"Me and Ellen agree..."

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

So why is it that sometimes we fall into the trap of using the SOP to establish doctrinal truth?

Can I ask which doctrinal truth we are talking about?

Many people that quote the SOP to support a doctrine but cannot find support in the Bible, simply don't know their Bibles good enough.

Any which you cannot find in scripture. :-)

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

So why is it that sometimes we fall into the trap of using the SOP to establish doctrinal truth?

Quote:

Can I ask which doctrinal truth we are talking about?

Many people that quote the SOP to support a doctrine but cannot find support in the Bible, simply don't know their Bibles good enough.

And it also doesn't mean that we shouldn't use her for authority in other things. She says many things that are not in the Bible, but that's not important. She offers many details, for instance, about the Fall that we wouldn't know if it wasn't for Ellen White.

No prophet only says what a previous prophet said. If they did, they would all be repeating what Moses said. The test is whether someone teaches something that is a clear contradiction of a previous prophet of God. I don't believe Ellen White does this, although that's not to say that she never said anything that can't be understood to contradict the Bible. People do that all the time on the anti-White web-sites.

It's also important to remember that in the early history of the church, Ellen White's was used of God to help the pioneers find doctrinal truth. When they studied and couldn't decide something, she would be given a vision which indicated they should keep studying the Bible on the topic or that they had the correct understanding of a doctrine. That is often forgotten.

I always find that we can find the principles she teaches in the bible.

She may provide more detail, but she often adds to what is there.

Take health reform for instance, totally biblical.

Vegetarianism...

Totally biblical.

Until we learn to share these truths from the Bible alone, we will always be looked at with sideways looks.

Study and find it in the Bible.

Study for additional insight in the SOP.

Then present the truth from the Bible.

Sad thing is, that when I try to point this out to some, they think I am attacking the SOP.