Knowing Your Enemy: Satan's Attacks On SDAs

[John317]

Actually, Pam, yes, it certainly does matter what you think.

I'd like to hear more of what you are saying about this. I'm not sure I understand exactly what you mean. Are you talking about the "generational" thing?

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

In this case what I and others on this forum state as truth (on this basis) will be viewed as incorrect by those who believe as do you, even if I/we are right-merely based on the fact that we question the interpretation of Scripture that is held by the denomination.

I reject your position because it is not based on "Scripture".

But seeks to destroy the Canon by using the same argument as the "muslims".

Who also claim that it is inspired by Satan in many parts.

Do you realise you are presenting the same principles as them?

Not in the least. I am not now and never have made the claim that all Scripture is inspired by Satan, far from it. How can you say that I state that when I firmly believe that Jesus Christ and His words are perfectly preserved in the eyewitness testimony of Matthew, John and Peter (Mark). And of course my interpretations are based on Scripture, what else could they be based on; I quote text after text from all of Scripture and even from the writings of Paul to prove my positions. According to you everyone of the texts I quote are from Scripture. I have merely pointed out some glaring conflicts between what you believe to be Scripture and what Jesus Christ said to His own disciples.

I KNOW that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and I am His bondservant. Musims do not believe that Jesus is anything more that a human prophet of God. So please get your facts straight and don't just go on emotions. Fact is much more important than faith.

[John317]

I am not now and never have made the claim that all Scripture is inspired by Satan, far from it..... So please get your facts straight and don't just go on emotions. Fact is much more important than faith.

But Mark never claimed you said all Scripture is inspired by Satan. He said you teach that some of it is. That's the same as the Muslims believe. They don't claim that all the Bible is inspired by Satan, but they claim that some of it is.

You've asked Mark to get his facts straights and not to go just on emotions, but it is you who didn't get their facts straight. Mark didn't say what you claimed he said. Please go back and read what he said.

Speaking of going by emotions and not going by facts--- what do you call it when a person who doesn't know a language claims to know better how something should be translated than all the best translators of that language in the entire world?

[John317]

According to you everyone of the texts I quote are from Scripture. I have merely pointed out some glaring conflicts between what you believe to be Scripture and what Jesus Christ said to His own disciples.

By the way, happy Thanksgiving to you and your family, MM.:-)

You are certainly pointing out what you believe to be glaring conflicts, but the question is whether your understanding of those texts is correct or not. If we take as an example the things you wrote in The Spirit of the Church, pp. 122-123 and on other pages,I have serious questions that you are understanding the writings of Paul, to say nothing of some of the things Jesus said. A major problem I see is that you jettison almost 2/3 of the New Testament, and in my view, that is like trying to row your canoe with 1/3 of an oar.

[Guest]

Not in the least. I am not now and never have made the claim that all Scripture is inspired by Satan, far from it. How can you say that I state that when...

[John317]

.....I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

....John, my understanding is that Mrs. White was not quite ready to quit eating meat, hence she was struggling for a while. When the Lord delivered me from the filthy habit of smoking, I was ready. May be that is where the difference lies. I was ready and I believed the Lord could take the urge to smoke away from me for ever and He sure did! I believe He can do the same with anything. There is nothing too difficult for the Lord. Is not the Lord able to subdue all things unto Himself? It is all about how willing we are for Him to accomplish this for us, whether it be smoking, drinking, doing drugs, homosexuality, or anything sinful for that matter.

What then is the meaning of this simple, straightforward statement:

"Do you imagine you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once!" 1 S.M.327.

John, what's your take on this statement? I believe it is saying that through the merits of Christ we may be made "more than conquerors" over all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil. If we truly believe that and strongly desire to be delivered once and for all, on a daily basis, God does the impossible.

Please comment upon 1 S.M.327.

I completely agree with you, sky, about the significance and meaning of that statement.

And no, we should never think we can leave off sin a little a time. Definitely not. If we think that way, Satan will always make sure there is just a little more sin in our lives that we haven't left off. A little sin cherished and not left off will mean that the sin will eventually overcome us instead of our overcoming the sin.

I believe Ellen White is saying in that statement that we are to determine with God's help to give all the sin at once and not a little bit at a time. If we don't-- if instead we want to give up only some of the sin that we're convicted of-- then that sin will eventually conquer us.

But does that mean we are to give up the sin only so long as we experience no temptation? Shouldn't we give up the sin altogether even if we continue to be tempted by it?

What shows the greatest strength of character-- to do right even though experiencing great temptations? Or to do right when the temptations have been completely removed?

I think the answer is obvious, and I think this is one reason that God often does not see fit to remove the temptation.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: Twilight

I reject your position because it is not based on "Scripture".

But seeks to destroy the Canon by using the same argument as the "muslims".

Who also claim that it is inspired by Satan in many parts.

Do you realise you are presenting the same principles as them?

Not in the least. I am not now and never have made the claim that all Scripture is inspired by Satan, far from it. How can you say that I state that when I firmly believe that Jesus Christ and His words are perfectly preserved in the eyewitness testimony of Matthew, John and Peter (Mark). And of course my interpretations are based on Scripture, what else could they be based on; I quote text after text from all of Scripture and even from the writings of Paul to prove my positions. According to you everyone of the texts I quote are from Scripture. I have merely pointed out some glaring conflicts between what you believe to be Scripture and what Jesus Christ said to His own disciples.

I KNOW that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and I am His bondservant. Musims do not believe that Jesus is anything more that a human prophet of God. So please get your facts straight and don't just go on emotions. Fact is much more important than faith.

To clarify.

MM you are stating that the current Canon has many elements that are inspired by Satan and should not be taken as "truth".

The Muslims state that the current Canon has many elements that are inspired by Satan and should not be taken as "truth".

Your argument is the same.

Both arguments attack the canon of the scripture with the claim they are diluted by satanic influence.

[Twilight]

Originally Posted By: skyblue888

.....I asked God to take care of these evil habits and He sure did and at once. So these habits don't take time to be overcome if we allow God to take care of them and you know what, once I was delivered, there were no withdrawal symptoms after that, none whatsoever.

....John, my understanding is that Mrs. White was not quite ready to quit eating meat, hence she was struggling for a while. When the Lord delivered me from the filthy habit of smoking, I was ready. May be that is where the difference lies. I was ready and I believed the Lord could take the urge to smoke away from me for ever and He sure did! I believe He can do the same with anything. There is nothing too difficult for the Lord. Is not the Lord able to subdue all things unto Himself? It is all about how willing we are for Him to accomplish this for us, whether it be smoking, drinking, doing drugs, homosexuality, or anything sinful for that matter.

What then is the meaning of this simple, straightforward statement:

"Do you imagine you can leave off sin a little at a time? Oh, leave the accursed thing at once!" 1 S.M.327.

John, what's your take on this statement? I believe it is saying that through the merits of Christ we may be made "more than conquerors" over all our inherited and cultivated tendencies to evil. If we truly believe that and strongly desire to be delivered once and for all, on a daily basis, God does the impossible.

Please comment upon 1 S.M.327.

I completely agree with you, sky, about the significance and meaning of that statement.

And no, we should never think we can leave off sin a little a time. Definitely not. If we think that way, Satan will always make sure there is just a little more sin in our lives that we haven't left off. A little sin cherished and not left off will mean that the sin will eventually overcome us instead of our overcoming the sin.

I believe Ellen White is saying in that statement that we are to determine with God's help to give all the sin at once and not a little bit at a time. If we don't-- if instead we want to give up only some of the sin that we're convicted of-- then that sin will eventually conquer us.

But does that mean we are to give up the sin only so long as we experience no temptation? Shouldn't we give up the sin altogether even if we continue to be tempted by it?

What shows the greatest strength of character-- to do right even though experiencing great temptations? Or to do right when the temptations have been completely removed?

I think the answer is obvious, and I think this is one reason that God often does not see fit to remove the temptation.

Consider this John317.

If we are really "crucified with Christ" and are "dead", then the temptations we hear are the lies of satan trying to convince us we are still alive.

A temptation to homosexuality, could then be the voice of Satan.

Not the flesh.

What do you think?

[Stan]

Can someone please come up with a different name for this thread?

[Tom Wetmore]

How about this one? "This topic should kill our last chance at effective outreach."

or

"How a few rotten apples really can spoil the whole bunch."

or

"Here is what we get from navel gazing."

or revising my favorite title for hairsplitting theological minutia debates "Are you too dumb to save" -

"Are we too crazy to save?"

[Twilight]

Can someone please come up with a different name for this thread?

What do you consider wrong with the current title Stan?

[skyblue888]

Well, may be it's because Satan doesn't hate Seventh-day Adventists so much any more.

sky

[wayfinder]

Interesting statement sky, I am wondering the same thing. For example, did Satan hate the Jews at the time of Christ or love what they had become.

[skyblue888]

Oh I am sure Satan loved what they had become!

Speaking of them, we read, "The people whom God had called to be the pillar and ground of the truth had become the representatives of Satan. They were doing the very work he desired them to do, taking a course to misrepresent the character of God, and cause the world to look upon Him as a tyran." D.A.36.

sky

[wayfinder]

The question, then, is this. Would Satan expend his best efforts on those he hates most to win their love and alligence, and cause them to belive with all their heart that they are following God's will, when in reality they are following the way of Satan? Did the Jews know that they were doing Satan's will?

History tends to repeat itself. The mistakes made in the past are repeated in subsequent generations.

[skyblue888]

The question, then, is this. Would Satan expend his best efforts on those he hates most to win their love and alligence, and cause them to belive with all their heart that they are following God's will, when in reality they are following the way of Satan? Did the Jews know that they were doing Satan's will?

History tends to repeat itself. The mistakes made in the past are repeated in subsequent generations.

wayfinder

____________________

"The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing scene." 2 SM 390.

When John the Baptist was being prepared for his ministry, the Jews, generally speaking, had already become the representatives of Satan but he still had a message for them and so did Jesus and the apostles even after the crucifixion.

sky

[John317]

The title of this thread is based on the following quote made by Satan to his evil angels:

Quote:

The sect of Sabbath keepers we hate; they are continually working against us, and taking from us our subjects, to keep the hated law of God.... Present the world before them in the most attractive light.... We must keep in our ranks all the means of which we can gain control... As they apppoint meetings in different places, we are in danger... Cause disturbances and confusion if possible. Destroy love for one another... Battle every inch of ground. Early Writings 266, 267

I did not make this discussion for the purpose of outreach to non-SDAs but for the SDAs. It isn't necessary for every discussion to be directed to non-SDAs. Some discussions may also be for SDAs, and this is one of those discussions.

[John317]

Well, may be it's because Satan doesn't hate Seventh-day Adventists so much any more.

What Satan fears most of all is that SDAs will do what God has called us to do. That's why he continues to try and keep SDAs asleep and lukewarm. Some are beginning to wake up and are growing "hotter". Others are growing colder.

[wayfinder]

John317

Who are the "many who are waking up"? As I see it the SDA church has not changed anything since it fell asleep. It fell asleep waiting for the second coming of Christ. Someone who now says that Christ is coming soon, and shows support from prophecy, is generally ridiculed, much like Wm. Millar and associates were.

[John317]

... Someone who now says that Christ is coming soon, and shows support from prophecy, is generally ridiculed, much like Wm. Millar and associates were.

Does this show to you that today there are not many who are waking up spiritually? The "many" will never be in the majority.

Christ's true followers can always expect to be ridiculted by the world. This is nothing new.

Luke 6:22

"Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!

1 Peter 4:14

If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you.

2 Peter 3:3-4

knowing this first of all, that scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. [4] They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation."

[Musicman1228]

John,

We both agree that the SDA church is asleep, I think that goes without saying. So what was it that put the church to sleep? And what is going on now that is any different than what was going on at the time they went to sleep?

[Guest]

Can someone please come up with a different name for this thread?

Why?

[Guest]

How about this one? "This topic should kill our last chance at effective outreach."

If outreach is all this site is supposed to be about, then "Club Adventist" is the wrong name.

It should be changed to something like "Non-denominational feel good chat"

-or-

"Anything goes church"

-or-

"Almost Religion"

[John317]

If we are really "crucified with Christ" and are "dead", then the temptations we hear are the lies of satan trying to convince us we are still alive.

A temptation to homosexuality, could then be the voice of Satan.

Not the flesh.

What do you think?

Temptations to homosexuality, just like temptations to do any sins against God, are certainly from Satan, and Satan uses the flesh and the fallen nature to draw us to do those sins. This is no excuse to commit those sins, though, because Christ showed that those who have fallen natures need not obey their fallen nature but are enabled to obey the Spirit. Romans 6 and 8 and Gal. 5: 16-26; 1 John 3: 1-10.

[John317]

The question, then, is this. Would Satan expend his best efforts on those he hates most to win their love and alligence, and cause them to belive with all their heart that they are following God's will, when in reality they are following the way of Satan?

Answer is, Yes, Satan does this.

He persuades some people to reject what they once knew to be the truth-- to reject the Spirit of prophecy and 2/3 of the New Testament and to teach that the SDA church got its start in a false message and was co-founded by a false prophet.

He persuades others to lay aside everything that they think might offend people or be different from the rest of the Christian denominations-- this for the sake of peace at any cost.

In other words, Satan attacks the SDA church and uses any tactic he can to gain his objective of silencing the message that God has for the SDA church to give to the world in order to prepare a people for Christ's coming.