No need to wait until 2012

[Bravus]

Judgement Day is May 21, 2011. Apparently: http://www.familyradio.com/

[Nan]

I must have missed somewhere learning of the precise date of the flood....

[lazarus]

I was near the White House last week and saw a large van with Judgment day and May 21 on it. I wanted to stop and chat with the guys standing outside but I didn't want to keep "the boss" waiting. I see its Harold Camping. Maybe he'll be right this time around. This brother has some exotic views.

[John317]

All this does is make people have doubts about the Bible every time these kinds of predictions fail. As you mention, he's made these kinds of predictions before. It's like calling "wolf" too many times.

I have enjoyed listening to some of Camping's radio programs before, but I don't agree with him on quite a few of his beliefs. To me it's crazy to keep coming up with these dates.

[BobRyan]

Judgement Day is May 21, 2011. Apparently: http://www.familyradio.com/

[abelisle]

My wife and I were talking about this since we listen to Dr. Cook's 15 minute devotional each morning on that station. He alone and their Bible quiz makes it worth listening to this station. What a shame that this is the primary religious station in the metro NYC area.

We joked that maybe on that day the station would go off the air, sort of like how the Millerites sold the homes and businesses in eager awaiting of that day to only be sorely disappointed.

And we also joked that what if that day was the day! Wouldn't we all be surprised! But like you say, if it's not then, we just have to wait for the Mayan prediction in 2012. LOL

Alex

[LifeHiscost]

To me it's crazy to keep coming up with these dates.

Probably more than two reasons exist for ignoring these predictions, but here's a couple that come to mind.

If a person believes the predictions are seen as being derived from the Word, when they fail to come to pass, the disillusion is attributed to failure of the Word.

If the prediction is considered to be true, for those so inclined it makes it easy to put off till later what would be better to do today.

"...for He says," AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU."Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"-- "2 Corinthians 6:2 NASB Emphasis their's LHC

"For as the lightning flashes in the east and shines to the west, so it will be when the Son of Man comes. Just as the gathering of vultures shows there is a carcass nearby, so these signs indicate that the end is near"

Matthew 24:27,28 NLT

God Blesses!

[phkrause]

If a person believes the predictions are seen as being derived from the Word, when they fail to come to pass, the disillusion is attributed to failure of the Word.

If the prediction is considered to be true, for those so inclined it makes it easy to put off till later what would be better to do today.

Good points LHC

[cardw]

Probably more than two reasons exist for ignoring these predictions, but here's a couple that come to mind.

If a person believes the predictions are seen as being derived from the Word, when they fail to come to pass, the disillusion is attributed to failure of the Word.

If the prediction is considered to be true, for those so inclined it makes it easy to put off till later what would be better to do today.

Well this is the same reason prophecy should be ignored all together.

If the prophecy comes true then the Bible must be right.

If the prophecy doesn't then it must be some later date.

With that system in place anything could be a prophecy eventually. One simply has to wait until the event takes place then the words are read backwards into the event.

Adventism is based on that principle. It basically found itself wrong and continued to modify the beliefs until it could be fit into the actual events.

[jasd]

QR frame:

I’m put to mind others who’ve gone on to develop dogmas and doctrines issuing from presumption upon Gd’s prerogatives – à la Wm Miller and those subsequently attached...

Harold Camping makes the same mistake as others – in that he’s failed to perceive the distinction between the OT calendar and the more recent Hillel II (Jewish/Hebrew) and the Gregorian (Papist :-) calendars – both manmade, rather than Gd-inspired... Such commonalities give rise to all sorts of

“exotic views”.

Such epistemological peculiarities often redound to “those who do not actually read their Bibles”.

I place more credence upon the Mayan 2012, which some posit as a solar event (of such magnitude as to bring to mind the Biblical seven-times hotter sun), others a pole shift to the N Atlantic (with the repositioning of the N Pole between the tip of Greenland and the British Isles, South-Eastward of Iceland), yet others envision volcanic activity obscuring the sun – with all that entails...

The above stated, I can find no other source for such enjoyable Xtian music – in abundance - than from Family Radio.

[wayfinder]

Wm. Miller and the adventists, were a fullfillment of prophecy, in their action.

Matthew 25

1 "Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

2 "Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.

3 "For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,

4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.

5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep

The bridesmaids went out to meet the Bridegroom on a certain day, because they expected Him on that day. That day was Oct. 22, 1844.

[jasd]

>>The bridesmaids went out to meet the Bridegroom on a certain day, because they expected Him on that day. That day was Oct. 22, 1844.<<

Why can not the imprudent bridesmaids yet go out to meet the Bridegroom -- post 1844? ...as well, note: there is no mention or explicative in this passage - re the bride.

You're not suggesting a symbolically current and unusually long 'night', are you?

Moreover, though I don't wish to explore here - the reasons why the date October 22, 1844 is hermeneutic eisegesis - it is, in fact, unsustainable by Holy Writ.

:(

[wayfinder]

How much time have ye for a study of Daniel 8 and 9. I did an abbreviated study on this today in Sabbath school, it is in the archive for Spirit of Truth Ministry.

As far as the bridesmaids and bride go, notice in verse 5 of Matthew 25:5 "Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.

There is only one reason a Jewish bridegroom would delay his coming to get his bride, she was not ready.

In the context of the wedding, which the Son of God uses, the father of the bridegroom would make known the day that his son could go get his bride.

Matthew 25:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows (this word also means to show or to make known/reveal), not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.

The bridegroom would go to prepare a place for he and his bride to live, this was in the family home of the bridegroom.

John 14:2 NAS

"In My Father's house are many dwelling places ; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you....

When the bridegroom arrived at the home of his bride she had to be ready to go immeadiately to the marriage feast (wedding). If she was not ready the wedding was canceled permanently! The Bridegroom was delaying because He knew His bride was not ready. The bridesmaids are not the bride, well said, jasd. If the Bridegroom came in 1844, He would have found His bride unprepared for the wedding and that would be the end of everything and everyone, thank God He did not come.

There is a specific process used to insure that the bride is always ready when her bridegroom comes and knocks on her door, here is how it goes. The father of the bridegroom reveals the date of the wedding to his son. The son sends his servants on ahead of him. The bride sends her attendants/bridesmaids out to watch the road her bridegroom will take to her house. When the servants of the bridegroom see the bridesmaids positioned on the road they will say, "the bridegroom is on his way". The bridesmaids will go to the brides house and prepare her to meet her bridegroom and when he arrives she is ready to go with him the moment he arrives at her door.

Revelation gives us the account of the process which occurs when the Father reveals the time of the wedding to His Son and the preparation of the bride of Christ.

Revelation 1 (The Son of God sends His bondservants on ahead of Him)

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place ; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

2 who testified to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.

3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Revelation 19:7 NAS (The bride has been prepared as is ready)

[Marriage of the Lamb] "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."

Revelation 21:2 NAS

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband

This process is well under way right now.

[Musicman1228]

Remember, then, what you received and heard. Keep it, and repent. If you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come against you. Rev.3:3.

This verse implies that if you DO wake up you WILL KNOW at what hour the thief is to come.

But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Matt.24:43.

This is a rhetorical statement that says that IF the householder (Bondservant) knew the time of night he WOULD HAVE stayed awake, implying that if he does know the time he WILL BE awake when the Thief comes to prevent the burglery.

What is the ONLY thing that Jesus said that HE DIDN"T know, as a direct statement of fact? When He was to return.

“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, NOR THE SON, but the Father only. Matt.24:36.

And what was it that Jesus said to John about the information that He was transmitting to His bondservants?

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw. Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. Rev.1:1-3.

Here we see the Father giving information to His Son about the time when He can go get His Bride, information that Jesus did not already have. Jesus then gave this information to His ANGEL, who gave it to JOHN, who then through the writing of the book of Revelation gave it to the Bondservants of Jesus Christ.

The ONE person that has the understanding to KNOW what this information is and who it needs to go to is the Faithful and Wise Bondservant, who also feed his fellow bondservant (of Jesus Christ) this information AT THE PROPER TIME.

“Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Matt. 24:45.

All of this information is on a "NEED TO KNOW" basis, and only the Wise (the Faithful and Wise bondservant, his fellow bondservants and 5 Wise Bridesmaids) will understand.

Many shall purify themselves and make themselves white and be refined, but the wicked shall act wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand. Dan.12:10.

Understand what? When Jesus is coming back.

This seems pretty simple to me. If a person is not meant to know this then they won't, they will fight it tooth and toenail. However, as Gabriel told Daniel-the wise WILL understand. These are not my words, so don't get mad at me if you disagree with them. Take it up with Jesus Christ.

[LifeHiscost]

This seems pretty simple to me. If a person is not meant to know this then they won't, they will fight it tooth and toenail. However, as Gabriel told Daniel-the wise WILL understand. These are not my words, so don't get mad at me if you disagree with them. Take it up with Jesus Christ.

Not wishing to interfere in a perfectly logical presentation but it is a fact that prophecy is primarily given for the believer, as per:

"Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers."1 Corinthians 14:21 NLT

Two of the most telling evidences of the nearness of the coming of Christ to this earth for the second time are these two prophetic utterances from the Word:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."Matthew 24:14 NLT

"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."Joel 2:28 NKJV

As corroborative evidence from the Spirit of Prophecy, this also is written:

"The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.--"9T 11 (1909). {LDE 11.2}

The time of trouble--trouble such as was not since there was a nation [Dan. 12:1]--is right upon us, and we are like the sleeping virgins. We are to awake and ask the Lord Jesus to place underneath us His everlasting arms, and carry us through the time of trial before us.--3MR 305 (1906). {LDE 12.2)

So now we are given warning of Christ's second coming and of the destruction to fall upon the world. Those who heed the warning will be saved.--

DA 634 (1898). {LDE 13.2}] Bold mine LHC

God blesses!

[Musicman1228]

Originally Posted By: Musicman1228

This seems pretty simple to me. If a person is not meant to know this then they won't, they will fight it tooth and toenail. However, as Gabriel told Daniel-the wise WILL understand. These are not my words, so don't get mad at me if you disagree with them. Take it up with Jesus Christ.

Not wishing to interfere in a perfectly logical presentation but it is a fact that prophecy is primarily given for the believer, as per:

"Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers."1 Corinthians 14:21 NLT

Two of the most telling evidences of the nearness of the coming of Christ to this earth for the second time are these two prophetic utterances from the Word:

"And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come."Matthew 24:14 NLT

"And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions."Joel 2:28 NKJV

As corroborative evidence from the Spirit of Prophecy, this also is written:

"The calamities by land and sea, the unsettled state of society, the alarms of war, are portentous. They forecast approaching events of the greatest magnitude. The agencies of evil are combining their forces and consolidating. They are strengthening for the last great crisis. Great changes are soon to take place in our world, and the final movements will be rapid ones.--"9T 11 (1909). {LDE 11.2}

The time of trouble--trouble such as was not since there was a nation [Dan. 12:1]--is right upon us, and we are like the sleeping virgins. We are to awake and ask the Lord Jesus to place underneath us His everlasting arms, and carry us through the time of trial before us.--3MR 305 (1906). {LDE 12.2)

So now we are given warning of Christ's second coming and of the destruction to fall upon the world. Those who heed the warning will be saved.--

DA 634 (1898). {LDE 13.2}] Bold mine LHC

God blesses!

I will go a step farther and say that it is not just meant for just any 'believers', but for a specific sub-set of believers - The Bondservants of Jesus Christ. Here is what Jesus said:

The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show to his servants the things that must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,   (2) who bore witness to the word of God and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, even to all that he saw.   (3) Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near. Rev.1:1-3.

The term 'servants' in this text is actually 'bondservants' - people that are defined in their service by 'BOND'; they have been bought and paid for by the Son of God who paid the penalty for their disobedience, and they recognize their 'life bond' because of that payment. They are not 'set free', they are not (yet) sons and daughters of God, they are slaves by bond to their Master because He did something for them that they could only do for themselves by their own deaths.

Very few people fall into this category of servant; actually there will be only 144,000 of these people in total that are prepared for when their Master comes as a Thief in the Night. The context for this is given in Matt. 24:42-51, and Matt.25:1-13 (all the same prophecy).

[Note; that the coming as a Thief IS NOT the same event as the coming in the Clouds (mistakenly termed the 2nd Coming). The Coming like a Thief happens before the Great Tribulation, from which a vast multitude is come.]

[Dr. Rich]

Please take note of what 'gospel' is to be taken to the whole world. It is the gospel about the Kingdom of Heaven. Know anyone today who is preaching about the Kingdom of Heaven and who it is right now?

Didn't Jesus give us a picture of who this group will be like at the time just before and at the time He comes like a thief? You can read what this group will be like at Matthew 25:1-13. Another picture of their charactor are found in Rev. 2 and 3. These seven messages are for this same group. Why? So they can tell who they are AND because it would be useless to send these messages to the kingdoms of the world. It would also be useless to give to the original 7 churches because what good would they do them at the end of the earth's history?

Therefore, the only group of people living on this earth today that fits every point found per above can be the Adventists. I might add that it will probably be harder for those who are leaders, preachers and teachers to give up long held mistaken beliefs then it will be for the members. Also, this is not just for card carrying members, but everyone in the world who keeps the commandments and the words (testimony) of Jesus as found in Rev.12:17

[LifeHiscost]

Also, this is not just for card carrying members, but everyone in the world who keeps the commandments and the words (testimony) of Jesus as found in Rev.12:17

As well this:

"They have kept themselves as pure as virgins, following the Lamb wherever he goes. They have been purchased from among the people on the earth as a special offering to God and to the Lamb. "Revelation 14:4 NLT

God blesses!

[jasd]

>>... you find the storytelling above designed for those who do not actually read their Bibles.<<

But rather – recourse to ‘inspirational’ sources?—aw, c’mon, give the .Org a break!

[jasd]

...speaking of 2012 and the elliptical:

"E.T. does not need to phone home anymore, someone, or something is on it’s way to earth.

SETI Astrophysicist Craig Kasnov ( not to be confused with Craig Kasnoff ) has announced the approach to the Earth of 3 very large, very fast moving objects. The length of the "flying saucers" is in the range of tens of kilometers. Landing, according to calculations of scientists, should be in mid-December 2012. Date coincides with the end of the Mayan calendar.

A few very large objects rapidly approaching the Earth - says SETI astrophysicist Craig Kasnov. Don’t take his word for it you can check it out for yourself. He recommends to go to the site http://www.sky-map.org/ and enter the coordinates of the giant UFO:

19 25 12 -89 46 03 - the first large object

16 19 35 -88 43 10 - a cylindrical object

02 26 39 -89 43 13 - the object as a circle

The project participants are assured that the facilities are absolutely real, and the American space agency NASA is trying to conceal important information.

None of these objects can be seen from the northern hemisphere. The second set of numbers in each line tells us that the "object" or "objects" is/are coming in from very deep in the southern hemisphere sky.

In any case, the only thing we can do now - wait for it - says Kasnov. - Soon celestial objects will be visible in a good telescope.

Keep your eyes on the skies… the truth is out there."

http://www.examiner.com/ufo-in-canada/3-very-large-objects-space-flying-to-earth

[fccool]

http://paranormalutopia.com/2010/12/craig-kasnov010/