the fear of God vs the fear or man in the church

[skyblue888]

Someone asked, the Fear of the Lord, What does it mean? Does it mean to be afraid of Him?

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The poster explained that to fear God was to respect Him, to revere Him, etc etc But I would like to offer a different approach based on the following statement:

"Those who feared God were to think for themselves; they were no longer to let other men do their thinking. They were no longer to be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines." E.G. White, This Day With God, p.32.

This has always been the difficulty in the church. When the Lord sent that most precious message to us in 1888 it was to correct this problem. The fear of men had supplanted the fear of God.

"For years the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave His servants a testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus, which is the third angel's message, in clear, distinct lines." Testimonies to Ministers, p.93.

On the previous page we read, "Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine Person, to His merits, and to His changeless love for the human family."

On that same page, it is said that the people were "invited to receive the righteousness of Christ which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God."

How were they to receive the righteousness of Christ? Simply by laying hold of the merits of His infinite sacrifice. Mrs. White spoke of "the faith that lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour to bring Christ's righteousness into the life. Clothed with His righteousness and not your own righteousness, you will not depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything." Faith and Works, pp.65,66,27.

His righteousness is made manifest in obedience.

But the most important emphasis of the message was on the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour. Thus we read these words, "Man's work is to lay hold by faith of the merits of Christ." F.E.430.

This is the one aspect of the message that has been completely overlooked ever since this message was proclaimed. Yet it was the very heart and essence of the third angel's message for as we appropriate the merits of Christ to ourselves, by claiming them, with the simple faith of a little child, the righteousness of Christ is both imputed and imparted to us. Thus we are clothed with the full armour of righteousness which is the full armour of light which is the full armour of God, and thus we are made "more than conquerors."

This is the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines, and just as simple as accepting the alphabet.

"Unless he makes it his lifebusiness to behold the uplifted Saviour and to accept the merits which it is his privilege to claim, the sinner can no more be saved than Peter could walk upon the water unless he kept his eyes fixed steadily upon Jesus." T.M.93.

This statement reveals in clear, distinct lines, that this is the only way the sinner can be saved, the only way he can attain to righteousness.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law, but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ." Faith and Works, p.101.

Do you see how simple the message of the righteousness of Christ is? "The matter of salvation is just as simple as ABC. But we don't understand it." Faith and Works p.4.

So we are to daily come to God just as we are, sinful, helpless, dependent, and hang our helpless souls upon the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour that we may be clothed with the glorious apparel of Christ's righteousness which accomplishes everything for the righteousness of Christ imparts all the powers, all the grace, all the repentance, all the inclination, all the pardon of sins! This is what we are told in clear, distinct lines in Faith and Works, p.24.

To look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim is our lifebusiness. What a privilege this is! Who can fathom the merits of Jesus Christ? The blood that He shed for us was of value beyond estimate! So who can fathom what the merits of Christ mean to the believing sinner especially when we are told that "Jesus was treated as we deserve that we might be treated as He deserves." D.A.25.

Mindboggling!

There is so much more on this topic of the merits and righteousnessn of Christ. I pray and hope that the Holy Spirit will open the eyes of our understanding that we may discern the precious truth.

Remember that to "fear" God is to think for ourselves, to no longer let other men do our thinking that we may no longer be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines of men.

God bless,

sky

[pnattmbtc]

Very interesting post.

Here's the EGW statement:

Quote:

Those who feared God were to think for themselves; they were no longer to let other men do their thinking. They were no longer to be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines. E.G. White, This Day With God, p.32.

You commented:

Quote:

Remember that to "fear" God is to think for ourselves, to no longer let other men do our thinking that we may no longer be chained down to erroneous maxims, theories, and doctrines of men.

She didn't say that to fear God is to think for oneself, but that those who feared God thought for themselves. So this is a characteristic of one who fears God. This is quite an interesting point, but not quite what you said. So it seems that the standard definition of "fear God" as meaning "respecting God" (or "reverencing God") is fine. It also fits with the context, as it says above, "they were no longer to let other men do their thinking," which makes sense if one is respecting (or reverencing) God instead of man.

However, I like the tie in to thinking for oneself. That's a cool observation.

[skyblue888]

pnatt, thanks for your comments. Well, I didn't mean to say that to "revere" or to "respect" God were not part of fearing Him but that in the context of the message for today which is the third angel's message, we have to choose between the traditions and teachings of men and the traditions and teachings of God. When truth is presented there will always be those who at first accept it and yet will reject that same truth if the pastor or some other so-called leader of the church opposes it. This is fearing man rather than God.

So in that context, to "fear" God is to think for yourself and not let other men do your thinking.

Here is a wonderful quote to illustrate this:

"If you see a little light, you are not to stand back and say, 'I will wait until my brethren have seen it.' If you do, you will go on in darkness. God help us to have a knowledge of the truth and if you have seen the the truth of God, press right to the light and put up the bars behind you." Faith and Works, p.77,78.

Thus we are truly revering honoring, repecting and therefore fearing God.

sky

[pnattmbtc]

Here's a statement from Waggoner along similar lines that I like:

Quote:

The Holy Spirit enables those who wish to do God's will to tell what is truth as soon as they see or hear it, and they accept it, not on the authority of the man through whom it came to them, but on the authority of the God of truth. We may be as sure of the truth which we hold and teach as the apostle Paul was. But whenever anybody cites the name of some highly-esteemed preacher or doctor of divinity, to justify his belief, or to give it more weight with some person whom he would convince, you may be sure that he himself does not know the truth of what he professes. It may be the truth, but he does not know for himself that it is true. It is everybody's privilege to know the truth (John 8:31,32); and when one holds a truth directly from God, ten thousand times ten thousand great names in its favor do not add a feather's weight to its authority; nor is his confidence in the least shaken if every great man on earth should oppose it. It is a grand thing to be built on the Rock. (The Glad Tidings)

[pnattmbtc]

sky, if you want to start a thread on the atonement, I'll discuss this with you. I can tell you're coming at this subject from a different framework than I am. I'd like to discuss that.

[skyblue888]

Here's a statement from Waggoner along similar lines that I like:

Quote:

The Holy Spirit enables those who wish to do God's will to tell what is truth as soon as they see or hear it, and they accept it, not on the authority of the man through whom it came to them, but on the authority of the God of truth. We may be as sure of the truth which we hold and teach as the apostle Paul was. But whenever anybody cites the name of some highly-esteemed preacher or doctor of divinity, to justify his belief, or to give it more weight with some person whom he would convince, you may be sure that he himself does not know the truth of what he professes. It may be the truth, but he does not know for himself that it is true. It is everybody's privilege to know the truth (John 8:31,32); and when one holds a truth directly from God, ten thousand times ten thousand great names in its favor do not add a feather's weight to its authority; nor is his confidence in the least shaken if every great man on earth should oppose it. It is a grand thing to be built on the Rock. (The Glad Tidings)

Hey thanks pnatt. That's a great quote and I had totally forgotten it. The Glad Tidings is a book I have read and studied over the years, one of my favorites. You forgot to give the page reference though.

sky

[skyblue888]

sky, if you want to start a thread on the atonement, I'll discuss this with you. I can tell you're coming at this subject from a different framework than I am. I'd like to discuss that.

pnatt, not sure what you mean by me "coming at this subject from a different framework" than you are.

No need to start another thread. I think this would be the place to discuss it.

sky

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

Hey thanks pnatt. That's a great quote and I had totally forgotten it. The Glad Tidings is a book I have read and studied over the years, one of my favorites. You forgot to give the page reference though.

Page number varies by addition. Here's a virtual reference: http://www.brooklawn.org/Books/GladTidings/GT02TheRevelationofJesusChrist.htm

This is one of my favorite quotes. Jones and Waggoner both had a lot of light.

[pnattmbtc]

Quote:

pnatt, not sure what you mean by me "coming at this subject from a different framework" than you are.

No need to start another thread. I think this would be the place to discuss it.

Ok. I suggested a different thread because it's off topic from your OP. But I'll start anyway.

I perceive you to come at the subject of the atonement from a legal framework. I come at it from the character of God framework. That is, if we ask the question as to why the atonement was necessary, to my way of thinking the following sheds light on this:

Quote:

Understanding the character of God, knowing His goodness, Satan chose to follow his own selfish, independent will. This choice was final. There was no more that God could do to save him. But man was deceived; his mind was darkened by Satan's sophistry. The height and depth of the love of God he did not know. For him there was hope in a knowledge of God's love. By beholding His character he might be drawn back to God. (DA 762)

Something to consider in regards to why the atonement was necessary is Lucifer's (or Satan's) case. In Lucifer's case, God offered to pardon him (GC 495-496), and to reinstate him if he confessed his sin. (4SP 320) No death of Christ would have been necessary.

If the issue were a legal one, such that God could not pardon without something legal being done, then God would not have been able to offer Lucifer pardon. In the DA quote we see that man did not know the height and length etc. of God's love, but Satan did. In this context, it makes sense why God offered Lucifer pardon without the cross, but for man's case, the cross was tied to pardon.

G. I. Fifield explained this as follows:

Quote:

The life of Christ was not the price paid to the Father for our pardon; but that life was the price which the Father paid to so manifest his loving power as to bring us to that repentant attitude of mind where he could pardon us freely.(God is Love, p. 33/34)

I think it's possible (desirable) to frame this issue in terms of God's character.

[skyblue888]

First I would like you to explain what you mean by "a legal framework" and where did you get this idea?

sky

[pnattmbtc]

By a legal framework I mean that the atonement was primarily necessary to solve a legal problem. E.g., the law demands death if a person sins, so Christ died to satisfy the claims of the law.

As to where I got this idea, it was from reading your posts. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know.

I know we see eye to eye on the question of God's character (regarding violence), and to may way of thinking, it's really the same issue when one deals with the atonement. It doesn't appear to me that Fred (from BYG) made this connection (although, I like very much the observations he did make regarding the cross; I think they're right on).

[skyblue888]

To my knowledge I have not made any statement to the effect that the atonement was primarily necessary to solve a legal problem. You must be confusing me with someone else.

"The intercession of Christ in our behalf is that of presenting His divine merits in the offering of Himself to the Father as our Substitute and Surety for He ascended up on High to make atonement for our transgressions." E.G. White, Signs of the Times, July 4, 1892.

Christ began this atoning work at His ascension and on Oct.22, 1844 He began its final phase (investigative judgment of the dead and of the living) still pleading the all-sufficient merits of His infinite sacrifice in our behalf, claiming the gift of the Holy Spirit that He may pour it upon us. So our work is to daily appropriate His merits to ourselves by claiming them that we may be clothed with the robe of His righteousness which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God.

The gift of the Holy Spirit cannot be excelled. It brings with it all the other blessings in its train. The Holy Spirit is given to open the word of God to our understanding amd bring home its truths to our hearts. One of these truths is the character of God which has been so long misunderstood and misrepresented. This message is illuminating in its influence and saving in its power.

The only mention I have made about the sanctuary message so far is that concessions were made to the Evangelicals in the 1950s in order for us to be recognized as a Christian denomination by the popular churches. The leaders of the General Conference assured the Evangelicals that we likewise believed that the atonement was finished at the cross and we also agreed with them that Jesus took the nature of Adam before the fall. These compromises or repudiations of these pillars of our faith satisfied the Evangelicals and they afterward declared that we were now accepted as members of the body of Christ.

sky

[pnattmbtc]

I'm talking about the purpose of Christ's death, sky.

Perhaps you could explain in brief, in your own words, why you think Christ died. Of course this will be the study for all eternity, so I know you can't give anything approaching a full explanation in a few words, but I'd be interested in what you think the principle reason(s) was/were.