Thus it was in the beginning but this was too much to be endured by S

[Twilight]

Show us from the book of Acts where there is hierarchy among the followers of Christ then.

There were Apostles and Deacons.

That is hierarchy Sky.

[skyblue888]

Who was the president of the Early Church?

sky

[Twilight]

Who was the president of the Early Church?

sky

Who was the Sabbath School Superintendant?

Who was the Treasurer?

Who was the Church Clerk?

Organisation is not a crime Sky.

But if you are arguing we have adopted Papal Hierarchical structures then you will need to show us this.

[skyblue888]

The Early Church had no president, Mark, as we all know.

The disciples were organized, Mark. They were joined to the one Head Christ Jesus and they were led and guided by the one Spirit. Now that is divine organization, is it not?

The "established church" of the day had every appearance of being organized but in reality that body was disorganized because those who composed it would not obey the Head. They would not be joined to the Head Christ Jesus but instead would put Him out of the world. Now that is only disorganization.

Did you not read what the Spirit of the Lord said about the men who composed the General Conference: "The self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If this order of things is allowed to continue, your faith will soon become extinct." Testimonies to Ministers, p.481.

On page 361 of the same book, we read, "The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods, makes me afraid and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of man's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result... At the time of the first advent of Christ the men who composed the Sanhedrin exercised their authority in controlling men according to their will. Thus the souls for whom Christ had given His life to free from the bondage of Satan were brought under bondage to him in another form." Testimonies to Ministers, p.361.

Here she compares the men of the General Conference of Seventh-day Adventists to the men who composed the Sanhedrin at the time of the first advent of Christ.

Having put God aside and having accepted the devisings of men, they were no longer under the control of God and they were working under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men.

"Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and fraud and guile will bear the semblance of zeal for truth and for the advancement of the kingdom of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as day belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced even among Seventh-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366.

"I have been shown that the Jewish nation were not brought suddenly into their condition of thought and practice. From generation to generation they were working on false theories, carrying out principles opposed to the truth, and combining with their religion thoughts and plans that were the product of human minds. Human inventions were made supreme.

"The holy principles that God has given are represented as the sacred fire, but common fire has been used in place of the sacred. Plans contrary to truth and righteousness are introduced in a subtle manner on the plea that this must be done, and that must be done, 'because it is for the advancement of the kingdom of God.' But it is the devising of men that leads to oppression, injustice, and wickedness. The cause of God is free from every taint of injustice. It can gain no advantage by robbing the members of the family of God of their individuality or their rights. All such practices are abhorrent to God. He inspires no such practices as have entered into by your councils in regard to the publication of books.

"Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring in a different order of things." T.M.359,360.

This order of things has not changed. On the contrary it has been developing for years ever since this appeal was made:

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation and to build upon a different principle." E.G. White, 1901 General Conference Bulletin, p.25.

sky

[Twilight]

"What we want now is a reorganization. We want to begin at the foundation and to build upon a different principle." E.G. White, 1901 General Conference Bulletin, p.25.

sky

Three questions.

Did Ellen White disapprove of having "presidents"?

What is the different principle she wanted to build upon?

Did it remove the role of "president"?

[skyblue888]

Yes Mark, the reformatory steps that were adopted in 1901 removed or eliminated the position of president of G.C. There was no president elected at that conference. A.G. Daniels assumed the position between 1902 and 1903 only to be elected at the 1903 General Conference because at that conference the principles of the 1901 Constitution were ignored and a man-made constitution was introduced and voted by a majority to replace the 1901 Gospel Order. The report of the minority who opposed this move was also ignored. And ever since we have had presidents of the General Conference and all the conferences and churches have been weaving after the same pattern.

First we were to begin at the foundation which is Christ the Head of every man and this would have brought in a different principle, the principle of self-government in Christ by the Spirit from top to bottom.

This different principle was elaborated upon at that Conference by brother Jones who was invited to speak on the matter of organization. This is also recorded in the Bulletin which I have here on my desk.

During the 1897 General Conference, Mrs. White said, "It is not wise to choose one man as the president of the General Conference." T.M.342.

For a while the Lord had winked at this order of things but in 1901 he said He wanted a change. He said, "I want the Holy Ghost to be king." And then He said, "The king is still enthroned," speaking of having a man presiding over the world church.

This is all recorded but I am afraid that our people have not been educated about these things, things that concern our eternal destiny.

sky

[Twilight]

Do you have some sources for this Sky?

[skyblue888]

Yes Mark, of course.

sky

[pnattmbtc]

I think Mark probably would like to know what the sources are. I think that was implied in his question.

[skyblue888]

I understand that pnatt. The sources are being given in the thread he started on the doctrines of Babylon.

sky

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I don't want to be a priest.

[phkrause]

I don't want to be a priest.

OK, you don't have to be. :)