Cesare Borgia

[remnant]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cesare Borgia (13 September 1475 or April 1476[1] – 12 March 1507), Duke of Valentinois[2], was a Valencian-Italian condottiero, nobleman, politician, and cardinal. He was the son of Pope Alexander VI and his long-term mistress Vannozza dei Cattanei. He was the brother to Lucrezia Borgia, (Juan) Giovanni Borgia, Duke of Gandia, and Gioffre Borgia (Jofré in Valencian), Prince of Squillace[3] . He was half-brother to Don Pedro Luis de Borja (1460–1481) and Girolama de Borja, children of unknown mothers.

This image fits Cesare better than Jesus.

http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Cesare_Borgia

[Gail]

Without looking at the article, I know that the Borgias were infamous.

I am curious as to the reason you share this with us... :)

[Amelia]

It's a new World of Warcraft game. Not sure what it has to do with Jesus though?

[remnant]

http://www.macquirelatory.com/False%20Images%20of%20Christ.htm

"Between 1502 and 1503, he employed Leonardo da Vinci as a military architect and engineer, in which him and Leonardo da Vinci became intimate instantaneously, they were..."

Sometimes we need to look deeper into the story to realize that there are liars around us. Adam and Eve fell victim to the swift talking serpent. Diligently seek the truth before you truly believe and trust in something.

[Gail]

So... I'm still not understanding.

Who is lying, and who are they lying to?

[remnant]

Cesare Borgia is who everyone is told to reflect upon as our Lord and savior Jesus Christ whenever you read the Bible.

Cesare Borgia had a male lover name Leonardo Di Vinci. I don't know about anyone else, but IF I'd put up an image of someone I identify as my savior, I wouldn't put such a person's picture in their place. This man was evil spirited, very well-known for it as well. People pushed this image knowing that it was of evil.

To reflect on an evil spirited man when thinking of good. Humm! Did God tell me not to worship any image? I do believe he did. I looked at him to be the savior and now I am shocked. The church should research this image and if it is what is being uncover, they should all reject it.

[phkrause]

Cesare Borgia is who everyone is told to reflect upon as our Lord and savior Jesus Christ whenever you read the Bible.

Cesare Borgia had a male lover name Leonardo Di Vinci. I don't know about anyone else, but IF I'd put up an image of someone I identify as my savior, I wouldn't put such a person's picture in their place. This man was evil spirited, very well-known for it as well. People pushed this image knowing that it was of evil.

To reflect on an evil spirited man when thinking of good. Humm! Did God tell me not to worship any image? I do believe he did. I looked at him to be the savior and now I am shocked. The church should research this image and if it is what is being uncover, they should all reject it.

Never ever have heard that!!!!!!!!

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

To be perfectly blunt, I don't know of anyone, Christian-Pagan-Muslim-Jew, or any other person, who worships any picture, be it painted by Cesare Borgia or Walt Disney.

[Amelia]

Quote:

Cesare Borgia is who everyone is told to reflect upon as our Lord and savior Jesus Christ whenever you read the Bible.

Who is everyone? Certainly not me. I have NEVER heard such a fairy tale. If you have been told this; run as fast as you can, as far as you can, from this person/people.

[remnant]

It is so good that everyone here rejects that picture. I am so happy to hear that and witness this response.

I know that there are people who hang this picture on their wall and think that it shows their faith or proclaim it to the world. For anyone to say that this doesn't exist is a liar.

I will go futher to say even the cross is seen as an idol before God.

Exodus 20:4,7 4 4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

7Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

[John317]

...Cesare Borgia had a male lover name Leonardo Di Vinci.

I wouldn't say this is not true or impossible, but I would like to know where you obtained this information. What is your reference?

[Nan]

Remnant am I understanding you to believe that a picture commonly thought to represent Jesus is actually a portrait of Cesare Borgia? Painted by Da Vinci?

I am asking this only on the basis of what you are saying, I have never heard what you are repeating.

[SivartM]

I didn't know that anyone thought that Jesus actually looked like the pictures...

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

Wow, you're up early....well...I'm up late, I guess..

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

I will go futher to say even the cross is seen as an idol before God.

Questions for you: Is the Bible an idol? How about the tablets of stone upon which God wrote the 10 commandments? Is a Christmas tree an idol? How about a nativity scene? What about a nice new shiny car? Motorcycle? How about one's job? Or one's appearance and grooming? Can intelligence be an idol? What about flowers? Would wearing flowers be considered to be an idolatrous act? What about going to church? Could a pastor be an idol? Could one's own opinion be idolatrous in the eyes of God? What about money? Fame? Position in community? Participating in or watching sports?

I think it all boils down to whether or not God is first.

[Tom Wetmore]

It's a new World of Warcraft game. Not sure what it has to do with Jesus though?

It seems that the premise of the OP is based on the link to Wiki about the World of Warcraft game, According to Wikipedia in its article about the historic character, "Cesare is the main antagonist of the video game Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood and leads the Papal army in Rome as the main character, Ezio, must find a way to take him and the Borgia family down." It is common for video games and other works of fiction to loosely base characters on real historic characters.

Is this topic an example of confusing fact and fiction, or someone having some difficulty in distinguishing fantasy and reality?

[Bravus]

Assassin's Creed has nothing at all to do with World of Warcraft. Whole different game series.

My best guess is that remnant is assuming that what is in his head is in all of our heads, and hasn't bothered to include the one crucial point that Cesare Borgia is reputed to have been the model for a depiction of Jesus in one of Leonardo da Vinci's paintings.

The rant makes a reasonable amount of sense, once that info is added.

[remnant]

Originally Posted By: remnant

...Cesare Borgia had a male lover name Leonardo Di Vinci.

I wouldn't say this is not true or impossible, but I would like to know where you obtained this information. What is your reference?

There is a book out called the life of Cesare Borgia that has this information on his life.

Also keep in mind things were different back in those days. Some things were accepted and not demonized like today.

[remnant]

Originally Posted By: remnant

I will go futher to say even the cross is seen as an idol before God.

Questions for you: Is the Bible an idol? How about the tablets of stone upon which God wrote the 10 commandments? Is a Christmas tree an idol? How about a nativity scene? What about a nice new shiny car? Motorcycle? How about one's job? Or one's appearance and grooming? Can intelligence be an idol? What about flowers? Would wearing flowers be considered to be an idolatrous act? What about going to church? Could a pastor be an idol? Could one's own opinion be idolatrous in the eyes of God? What about money? Fame? Position in community? Participating in or watching sports?

I think it all boils down to whether or not God is first.

All the things you are questioning me about are spoken of in the Bible. But I will answer you the best way I can on these things.

Bible and the tablets of the ten commandments are things we study. The christmas tree I would run from, because it is a symbol of the Sun god Satan. Never heard of a nativity scene. A car, motorcycle, wearing flowers, and money are possessions that people can idolize, but has a use in life. They are not to be worshipped as God. Presentation is good, but is not to be stiff mandate for all, speaking of intelligence, grooming, and opinions. Practice mercy over sacrifice. Church, pastors, job, and a position in community should be seen as learning areas. As for sports, we should not overly endulge in it as well as anything. Seeking fame can be dangerous for those who have a foolish heart.

Anything can be used as an idol, but everything can also have it's place.

[Gail]

Brotherhood of Blackheads? That conjured up a picture in my mind... Did it consist of teenagers? LOL

[Liz]

Brotherhood of Blackheads? That conjured up a picture in my mind... Did it consist of teenagers? LOL

ROFL!!! I don't know of any teenagers that wants to be a part of that brotherhood.

[remnant]

Hold on to your pants out there. I was listening to this christian broadcast and the fellow was talking about the end times. He explained the false prophet(the liar), fake christ (anti-christ), and those who delight in the lie.

If this image of christ (anti-christ) is what was told to have deceived the whole world, then who is the false prophet (the liar)? I can say that the present day church has performed miracles and all those things prophecized. No matter what some say, it is geared by the image of Cesare Borgia, whom I hear he is not holy at all, but the contrary.

The Catholic church is whom I can say pushed this image daily. They are like a false prophet (the liar). There is still a lie that is unaccounted for. Can anyone guess what it is? This lie has God very upset. His saints are calling for justice.

Don't you all know that the coming of the Lord will not be a pleasant day? I hear people saying they will be looking in the sky waiting for him. Don't ignore your aling brother as you do that. That is called having your candle lit, hence letting your love show. Forget just being aware. The Devil is aware, but practice good continually. That is to do good.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

All the things you are questioning me about are spoken of in the Bible.

Please give Bible texts dealing with cars, motorcycles, Christmas trees, and nativity scenes (you haven't ever heard of them?!?!?!?!?).

Your arguments are very loosely jointed, difficult to follow, and frankly, do not make sense to me.

[rudywoofs (Pam)]

LOLOLOL Good one, CoA..

[Gail]

T-Zone...again!!

I think we should feature "sound" smileys. I would definitely include the Twilight Zone theme for sure! :)