The Jewish people and anti-Semitism throughout the ages

[Gail]

I have a great respect for the Jewish people because as a Christian I believe that we share a common spiritual heritage.

Having said that, here is my question:

At the time of Christ's crucifixion the Jews declared that "his blood be upon us, and upon our children"

Have you ever wondered if that curse that they invoked upon themselves (corporately) at the time has anything to do with the persecution they have suffered since?

[Bravus]

Doesn't justify it, though.

[Kevin H]

Only if God perfered that prayer as a better prayer to answer than the prayer that said "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do."

Now history would have been a lot different had Jesus been able to set up the kingdom of heaven then and all suffering from that time on would have not happened, so in that sence that the history of sin continued and for man's sake Satan was allowed to continue.

And a lot of the perscuction has come because of humans who believed that the first prayer was more important than the second one and that they tried to answer the first prayer for God since God did not seem willing to answer that prayer himself. God will remember them, and they will remember the second prayer as they see many of their victims in red trimed robes looking into the face of him who prayed the second prayer.

[Gerr]

I just got through reading Dt 27-30 - the blessings & curses.

[skyblue888]

Here is an interesting commentary on this:

"Looking upon the smitten Lamb of God, the Jews had cried, 'His blood be on us, and on our children.' That awful cry ascended to the throne of God. That sentence, pronounced upon themselves, was written in heaven. That prayer was heard. The blood of the Son of God was upon their children and their children's children, a perpetual curse.

Terribly was it realized in the destruction of Jerusalem. Terribly has it been manifested in the condition of the Jewish nation for eighteen hundred years,(almost 2,000 now)--a branch severed from the vine, a dead, fruitless branch, to be gathered up and burned. From land to land throughout the world, from century to century, dead, dead in trespasses and sins!

Terribly will that prayer be fulfilled in the great judgment day. When Christ shall come to the earth again, not as a prisoner surrounded by a rabble will men see Him. They will see Him then as heaven's King. Christ will come in His own glory, in the glory of His Father, and the glory of the holy angels. Ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands of angels, the beautiful and triumphant sons of God, possessing surpassing loveliness and glory, will escort Him on His way. Then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory, and before Him shall be gathered all nations. Then every eye shall see Him, and they also that pierced Him. In the place of a crown of thorns, He will wear a crown of glory,--a crown within a crown. In place of that old purple kingly robe, He will be clothed in raiment of whitest white, 'so as no fuller on earth can white them.' Mark 9:3. And on His vesture and on His thigh a name will be written, 'King of kings, and Lord of lords.' Rev. 19:16. Those who mocked and smote Him will be there. The priests and rulers will behold again the scene in the judgment hall. Every circumstance will appear before them, as if written in letters of fire. Then those who prayed, 'His blood be on us, and on our children,' will receive the answer to their prayer. Then the whole world will know and understand. They will realize who and what they, poor, feeble, finite beings, have been warring against. In awful agony and horror they will cry to the mountains and rocks, 'Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: for the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?'" Rev. 6:16, 17. Desire of Ages, 739-740.

There will much more suffereing for them then in terms of mental agony.

sky

[skyblue888]

I agree with you CoA. What I quoted from The Desire of Ages is not to be taken to mean that God and Christ have directly taken personal vengeance on them since then or in the future.

sky

[phkrause]

I have a great respect for the Jewish people because as a Christian I believe that we share a common spiritual heritage.

Having said that, here is my question:

At the time of Christ's crucifixion the Jews declared that "his blood be upon us, and upon our children"

Have you ever wondered if that curse that they invoked upon themselves (corporately) at the time has anything to do with the persecution they have suffered since?

Very interesting question Gail. Having actually seen this in action with my family, I do think about that. I'll give an example, my aunt never once would say a curse on herself always on her children, and sad to say that they have had an awful life. Now having said that I still have a problem with believing that God would do that. But than like Gerry mentioned that he just read the last few chapters in Deut. I agree that we should read what it has to say. Very interesting I'd say.

[skyblue888]

pk, when reading the cursings it would be wise to keep the following example in mind:

The Lord said to David, "Behold I will raise up evil against you out of your own house, and I will take your wives before your eyes, and give them unto your neighbor... for you did it secretly; but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.." 2 Sam.12:11,12.

That sounds exactly like the curses found in Deuteronomy. Now notice Mrs. White's comment immediately following this cursing. "Not that God prompted these acts of wickedness, but because of David's sin He did not exercise His power to prevent them."

In the same paragraph she explains that God did not prevent Absolom from carrying out Ahithophel's vile suggestion to take to himself his father's comcubines, according to the custom of oriental nations, thus declaring that he succeeded to his father's throne. "Thus was fulfilled the word of God to David by the prophet, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you out of your own house." See Patriarchs and Prophets, p.739.

sky

[Gail]

I have heard of an instance of some (not our) church members using that as an excuse for anti-Semitism on their part.

The blessing/cursing idea has intrigued me for many years. Is this something we should pursue further? Since I first started thinking about it I have tried to be aware and refrain from cursing.

I am wondering if the concept should be considered more seriously than it is. Is this part of the "every idle word that man shall speak" idea, that it will come back to haunt the person?

They are just some of my thoughts. I'd love to hear more feedback, and thanks for the varied responses we have here already!

[Gerr]

What truly amazes me is the resiliency of the Jews. No matter how catastrophic the conditions they go through, they have a way of bouncing back. In that regard, I think they are still enjoying the covenant blessings through Abraham. I tried to discuss this once with an intern (Jewish woman) while I was a student. She got somewhat incensed and told me, "Do you really believe that c--p?".

I am also amazed at how they excell and are over-represented in most of the highly esteemed professions.